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What kind of solutions do Managed Services Providers offer?
Let’s learn more with Juan Fernandez, an early-stage investor in software startups, Co-founder, and CEO of the MSP growth Coalition that has built a scalable framework to empower business owners to scale their MSP. Juan recently hand built and architected the design of a multimillion-dollar MSP that consecutively ranked one of the fastest-growing IT companies in the industry. He is also the creator and author of The MSP Handbook which empowers small businesses and personnel to implement the strategies needed to build great businesses and careers.
Juan is also known as The Chief Encouragement Officer for improving processes, and procedures, and empowering individuals to be successful while delivering business outcomes via technology his whole career. His passion is to help “move the channel forward” and is one of a few to have written the CompTIA A+, Network +, and Security + Tests. He sits on the CompTIA Subject Matter Expert Technical Advisory board, and his entire career is dedicated to creating effective scalable business models and educating others on his “Making IT Simple” approach.
Juan is the winner of MSP Shark Tank for best security and services presentation, and he currently sits on the CompTIA Channel Development Advisory Council as Co-Chair, Forbes Magazine Technology Council, CompTIA Infrastructure Certification Advisory Committee, a Channel Futures MSP mentor and worked with many other channel companies to develop the future of technology and XaaS models.
Juan was featured in CompTIA World Magazine, Channel Pro magazines – Peer of the year, HP DaaS innovator of the year and awarded CRN magazines fastest growing MSPs, ENX Magazines – Difference maker of the year, Channel Futures DE&I 101 Leadership Recognition, 2022 Channel Influencer of the year and CompTIA’s Industry advisory leadership award winner.
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Unlocking Success with Managed Service Providers
George Leith: This is the Conquer Local Podcast, a show about billion-dollar sales leaders, marketers leading local economic growth, and entrepreneurs that have created their dream organizations. They want to share their secrets, giving you the distilled version of their extraordinary feats. Our hope is with the tangible takeaways from each episode, you can rewire, rework and reimagine your business. I’m George Leith, and on this episode, we welcome my good friend, Juan Fernandez. Juan is an early-stage investor in software startups and also the Co-Founder and CEO of the Managed Service Provider’s Growth Coalition, but he refers to himself as the Chief Encouragement Officer where he invests his time in improving processes, procedures, and empowering individuals to be successful while delivering business outcomes via technology. He’s done this his entire career, and he’s also the creator and author of the MSP Handbook, which empowers small businesses and personnel to implement the strategies needed to build greater businesses and careers. He’s the winner of the Managed Service Provider Shark Tank for the best security and services presentation. And he sits on the CompTIA Channel Development Advisory Council as co-chair. He’s on the Forbes Magazine Technology Council and CompTIA Infrastructure Certification Advisory Committee. Juan has also worked with many other channel companies to develop the future of technology and everything as a service model. Juan Fernandez coming up next on the Conquer Local podcast.
George Leith: Juan, your background looks way better than mine because you’re… Oh, well that’s a picture. You’re not really on a beach. I was like, “Thank you for making some time to come on the Conquer Local podcast and you’re on a beach,” but you’re working, as always. So thanks for joining us.
Juan Fernandez: Hey, it’s a wonderful pleasure to be here. And the funny story about that picture is I’m supposed to be on a beach, but the pandemic stopped, dashed my whole beach dreams. And so my wife built this room, which you can’t see, is full of nothing but beach photos to make me feel like I am on a beach. So, there’s the funny story of the day.
CEO: Chief Encouragement Officer
George Leith: Well, that’s great. And when you and I first met was at the height of the pandemic. Our friend Jay McBain was putting together a panel. He wanted a bunch of really smart people and one person backed out, so then he called me. But you were one of those very smart people that were on the panel and I think as we’ve been able to spend more time together over the past couple of years, we’re cut from pretty much the same cloth. So it’s really great to have you on the show and thanks for making the time. As I promised, I was going to get you on the show at some point in time. Right now, you’ve got this great new title and I love it, Chief Encouragement Officer, so you are the CEO.
Juan Fernandez: Yeah, CEO.
George Leith: And tell us about the MSP Growth Coalition.
Juan Fernandez: Obviously, I came from the managed services space and one of the big things that I recognized during that time was, the thing that was really important for me… I know building businesses is wonderful, building new products, new services, new go-to-market strategies is excellent, but a lot of that comes from process, and that process also empowers people to be successful. And so what I found was unlocking the true potential of people was really one of the things that really drove me to build bigger businesses, so that process that empowered people to be successful, built wonderful cultures, which propelled the MSP I built from zero to about $20 million in six years, and it was all about the people. And so I found that empowering them was really my calling. And so the next business that I came out of, I just decided to help MSPs with. After I exited that MSP, I figured, why don’t I come and help MSPs figure out exactly how to unlock true success? And in that, I found that this CEO role was really Chief Encouragement Officer. It was really encouraging others to be successful and cheering them along their journey and helping them unlock success. So it was just a natural thing that happened. I remember the day I put the badge on and I wrote that title and people were like, “I love that man. I need some encouragement. Can you help me?” And I was like, “This is spectacular. This is exactly what it was meant for.”
MSP Growth Coalition
George Leith: Over the years, I’ve had the privilege of working with some amazing CEOs, Chief Executive Officers, and I think you nailed it. The reason they were great was because they were Chief Encouragement Officers. They recognized they needed to build great teams, and then they need to be there to help empower those teams to accomplish the goals, and to keep them on the rails of what good looks like. So managed service provider is the acronym, MSP, and I’m trying to kill acronyms. Elon Musk and myself are trying to kill acronyms. I don’t know him, I just like saying Elon Musk because it makes me sound smarter. But managed service providers, for folks listening, you probably have dealt with a managed service provider over the years. Would you be able to help our audience that don’t understand what a managed service provider is? Explain that business.
Juan Fernandez: Sure. So for those that are here that have a business in this new modern world that you need technology, and when you require technology, you have to lean on the expertise of those types of people. Now, managed services providers are basically companies that you would reach out to that would offer up products and services, support, supplies, a product and applications that you use to run your business. And then they would come in and manage that for you. So instead of hiring, let’s say, your nephew or somebody that you know, it’s most like you’re going to hire a business and a business that provides you that services called a managed services provider. So it’s really a technology company that’s offering solutions to you. It’s just if they manage it for you, then they’re considered a managed services provider.
What are Managed Service Providers?
George Leith: Now, we’ve talked about this a number of times. Let’s get it out on the table for the audience. As technology is democratized so that it’s easier for people to get ahold of, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easier for them to make use of it, so having somebody that can come in and set it all up and make it all work together. So when I think manage service provider, and I’m sorry if this is an old analogy, but I think somebody with a truck and there’s a ladder on the top of it and they come in with spools of cable and stuff like that and they make all of the crap that I need to run a modern business work. And so I hope that’s not offensive to anybody, but that’s what I think of.
Juan Fernandez: And it’s evolving too.
George Leith: But then what I also think of- Well, but then what I also think of, and this has been recent, is the level of trust that that individual has with the business owner because I’ve been working with businesses my entire career and I would come in and give them a plan for their marketing and their advertising and then their website design and then their search engine optimization. And I’d always have to ask them for the passwords in order to get in and get into the backend of the website. But I think a lot of the managed service providers, they actually have the password to the network or to the system because they built the thing. So this is my long-winded way of saying as technology comes together and you’ve got people that are providing MarTech solutions or they’re providing IT solutions, there might just be one trusted advisor, and I think that you’re playing on the team that has the most trust. Do you agree with that?
Juan Fernandez: 100%. I talk a lot about that. Normally, my background is a conference room table. And the reason for that is they’re the trusted advisor. That’s the trusted technology solution provider. They become part of your business and they become part of… As a real trusted partner, I require technology to run my business, so I need you at the table to have business strategic conversations so that I can use technology to become a competitive advantage or use it in some meaningful way. Technology’s not just utility anymore. Now it’s all these different things that businesses require and they use those to build their empires. So it’s really interesting to watch how the managed service provider was one day, just the guy that came in to put the wire in, and now it’s really more of a strategic advisory inside of your organization because you require it.
Challenges in offering Digital Solutions
George Leith: The other night we had a pitch party here. We do an event every six weeks for the local community. And sometimes it’s research and development, it’s the software developers, and sometimes it’s marketing and then other times its sales. And we had this pitch party and there was a gentleman that stood up and his pitch, in 60 seconds, was he was a technology provider and he could make all the stuff in our homes work together and there wasn’t anybody in the crowd that didn’t want to buy what he was selling because all of us have this problem of making it all work together. So if we have that problem in our homes, imagine what it’s like in a business. So when you sit down at that boardroom table and you’re advising a managed service provider, what are some of the biggest problems that you’re helping them solve?
Juan Fernandez: It’s interesting. So as you mentioned early on, technology people are very technical and the conversation that has to happen with the customer at the boardroom is very business-centric, right? So oftentimes, there’s a chasm there. And that’s what I really help MSPs do and manage services providers do is have business conversations, how to talk to people in an outcome-based methodology or a business-based opportunity because we can get really technical and start talking about firewalls and switches and routers and all of the tech because that’s the world we live in, but not, “Here’s security and compliance and regulation and here’s how it impacts your business and the bottom line.” So that’s what I do at the Growth Coalition is really help them understand the business conversations to have with businesses so that they can understand what’s really truly important for them.
CompTIA Certification Test
George Leith: There’s an interesting story from your background that I’d hope we can get you to share because the one thing that we talk about on this show over the last five seasons is that if we’re going to be that trusted advisor and we’re going to continue to grow in our careers, we have to adopt. A percentage of our day has to go towards learning. And I know that you are a big advocate of learning, but there’s this great story about how you took a test once and it didn’t quite go so well, and now you’re the person that actually writes the test. Could you tell us that story?
Juan Fernandez: Yeah. I think anybody that starts off on any journey in life starts off somewhere, and my journey’s no different. I just share it more in hopes that I can encourage others to also find hope in the fact that there’s an opportunity in everything that happens, even in failure. And I was no different. I started off in tech. I wasn’t supposed to be in tech, if you will. I was supposed to be in trades. I was raised in a very rural community in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And most of my family had been in trades and worked really hard, not necessarily very educated, not necessarily not educated, but their definition of success was anything that I can do. So, “You can do anything, Juan, but only really what I can do.” Really what they were saying is, “I don’t really know how to tell you how to do something other, like be an astronaut or something like that.” So I found that I wanted to do tech. That was kind of where I was. I was working in a loan company and I remember leaving that to go start this thing. I remember AOL showed up and I decided, I told my girlfriend at the time, “I’m going to leave this really good job over here to go start this internet thing. I think it’s going to be something that I should do.” And I remember everyone telling me, “Oh, it’s a fad, Juan. Don’t do it. The internet’s not going to be around. Go focus on a real job, take a 20-year job, go to the military, do something that has a future, not the internet.” And it was interesting because as I got there, I realized that I didn’t know anything about computers, and so I decided one day to take a test. And at that time, was called CompTIA+. I was really good at customer service, but I couldn’t fix everyone’s problems. And I said, “There’s something I got to figure out here and that’s how to solve their problem. And if I don’t know everything about it, how can I solve it?” So I went to go take this test and I remember everyone saying, “You’re not going to make it, Juan. You’re not smart enough to do that kind of thing.” And I took the test and then I failed the damn test. And I was like, “Oh God. They were right.” And everything started coming in and piling up, thinking all those words from everybody saying, “You can’t do this.” And I was like, “Maybe I can’t.” And at the time, my girlfriend, now my wife, she was like, “You can’t let that get you down. You need to…” And we didn’t have money back then. We were super poor. I was 17 years old, I didn’t have any money. So I decided to go take that test again, and then I passed that test. But the reason that I failed it the first time, it wasn’t that… I got in my head saying, “Oh, I don’t do good at tests.” Everything everyone says: I don’t do good at tests, I don’t do good under pressure, I’m not good at studying, all these things. I made all those same excuses and it was BS. I just didn’t study hard enough. I was like, “All right, you’re lying to yourself, dude. Come on. Seriously, get with it.” So I studied really hard and I went back and I passed that test and immediately in that the moment, I unlocked something called, “You can,” and I just kept on. I was like, “Really? Can I do this? Am I really smart enough to do this?” And then I just kept on feeding off of that, and I remember everyone telling me I couldn’t do it. And every time, I would just use that as fuel. And I was like, “I’m going to prove you wrong. I’m going to do this.” And I kept doing it and I kept doing it. And the more and more certifications I got, the more and more I kept climbing up that ladder. And it was interesting because then it just really unlocked this “I can” initiative inside of myself. And it was funny because years later, and this was the crowning glory of all of the things that I think I’ve done, I remember the day that CompTIA called me and was like, “Can you explain to me why you’re taking the test so many times?” And I was like, “Uh-oh, I might be in trouble.” And I thought they might be thinking that I was trying to hack the test because I had taken my A+, I don’t even know, six times. And normally that’s not… They were like, “Why are you doing that? You were grandfathered. Why did you do that?” And I was like, “Everywhere I go, I challenge the people that are around me to take the test and if they can pass with a higher score than me, I’ll pay for the test.” And they were like, “Wow, that’s an interesting initiative.” And so I had my A+ and my Security+ and my Network+ and all these other tests a multitude of times and it just didn’t make sense. So they invited me to come and help write the test. And I remember that moment. It was just probably one of the most proud moments. I was like, “This test owned me and now I get the chance to actually help write this test.” It was just absolutely baffling. And so it was just one of my most proudest moments, man. So I really look back on that and I encourage people that… And that’s why I tell the story. The test that one day owned me, now I own it, right? I’ve written it, I write it continuously. I’ve been writing it for years now and it’s a really proud moment for me.
The MSP Owner’s Handbook
George Leith: We should buy the rights and have Drake playing in the background, “Started at the bottom, now I’m here.” I love that. I love that story. So now here we are, you’ve written a book. Let’s talk about the book.
Juan Fernandez: Yeah.
George Leith: The MSP Owner’s Handbook: Definitive Guide.
Juan Fernandez: Yeah, the Definitive Guide, man. It’s right here. It was interesting. As I started helping MSPs and speaking on stage a lot, obviously George, we’ve shared many stages together talking about that thought leadership about how to empower others to be successful, and I just felt like I wasn’t able to answer everyone. So many people have so many questions and it was like, I can’t be one thing to everybody. And so I felt, look, let me just go ahead and create this content and get it out there, and then they can go and read it and they can take all that mind share and they can feed off it and they can unlock success and then they can report back how it’s working. And I thought originally, let’s just do this and maybe we’ll sell a couple of books. At least I’ll be able to hand this out and be like, “Here you go.” And ironically, when I said that, I said, “You know what? Here’s the thing I’m going to do instead. I don’t need the money. I’m doing this to help. I’ll take the money from the book, I’ll put it in a fund.” And for those people that struggle like me to get certified, we’ll take that money and if they write a questionnaire and fill out some information, we’ll actually pay for their certification and champion them through the product because I’ve been doing that for years with young folks and helping them and sponsoring them through and supporting certain people that have a good story that are just looking for some help. As always, I always launched called Thanks For Giving. And so I would always give away vouchers during this time of year, which I’m still doing, and I’ve been doing it for a multitude of years, and I just follow people through their journey and just cheer them on in the background. It’s just something I wish somebody would’ve done for me. So when we wrote the book, I thought, eh, maybe we sell a couple, we’ll sponsor a couple of vouchers, and then it just blew up. The channel just came at that thing like a Mac truck and it started a whole nother business that I didn’t know I needed. And now The MSP Owner’s Handbook is doing really well. We’ve raised almost $30,000 to be able to give back. And here in December, we’re going to announce a big announcement that we’re going to be able to start offering that back. We’ve got so much outpouring of support from so many different people that want to get behind the initiative of just helping people find opportunities to get into tech, and we’re able to sponsor those now. And I’m really, really excited about what this has done. It’s helped so many people.
You can find it on Amazon. This version is actually the QBR edition. There’s five other books that are coming behind it. We’re almost done with book number two, so we’ll be working on that over the break here in December. But it’s been really awesome to see how many people have been helped by that. And it was really all the strategies that I take, profess and preach on how to really move a customer from stagnation to digital transformation, and the whole process of doing that. It’s something I felt like everyone needed. I didn’t want to start at the beginning on how to start a business. You’ve already got one. So it was more along the lines of, okay, here’s the part I need is the strategy on how to grow my business. And let’s start with the strategy, lay some foundations on it. And that’s where the QBR edition, which is Quarterly Business Review, came from.
Employee and Customer Success Programs
George Leith: A lot of those lessons are from when you grew a managed service provider from zero to $20 million in the six-year time period, which is an amazing growth trajectory. Two things that I know that you’re really passionate about, and some people might argue that the first, saying customer success is a buzzword. I think it was invented about four or five or six years ago where it’s not customer service anymore, it’s customer success because that’s the outcome that you’re trying to drive for the customer. But you also have this idea of employee success, and you probably have heard me say a few times over, well, the way I look at it, our teams, the employee, the team of employees, that’s our most precious resource because, without that team, you can’t serve the second most precious resource, which is the customer. Some people will say the customer is the most important resource. Okay, I get it. It’s very, very important. But if you’re a big company, you got to have a team and they have to find success as well. So how do you tie customer success and employee success together?
Juan Fernandez: It’s interesting because I actually was having a long conversation about this last night and somebody asked me a similar question and I said that during the pandemic, I can look at a couple, I can talk to MSPs now, and I say, “What was your employee retention during the pandemic?” And they’ll tell me a percentage of a number or maybe they’ll tell me some deliverable number. And then I’m like, “Okay, what was your customer churn during the similar time period?” And they’ll tell me a number. And usually, those numbers are very indicative.
So when I look at two things, I say, “If you even have a number during that time and you can’t explain it, that tells me a couple of things.” That tells me if I have employees that are leaving, that I probably didn’t have an employee success mechanic on the backend. I didn’t focus on that. I don’t have an employee success journey. And a lot of employees voted with their resignation, their employment. They said, “You know what? I don’t see myself being successful here at this organization, so I’m going to go find somewhere where I do.” And so I often look at those and I’m like, “Okay, well how many employees did you lose?” And they’re like, “This many.” And I’m like, “Why?” They’re like, “I don’t know.” I’m like, “Because you don’t have an employee success program because your employees didn’t see you being successful.” And if I don’t see myself being successful in your organization, what does that do? That taints my desire to want to come into work, which ultimately bleeds into how I’m going to respond to a customer. So if I don’t have that, how can I expect to have a customer success journey? You talk about customer satisfaction, that’s one measurable, but that’s not a program. That’s not telling me that I have an actual thought-out customer success machine that actually delivers something because if you did, you’d have an employee success one because that’s where it starts. So if I got a lot of customers that are going away and I got a lot of employees going away, that tells me all I need to know. I’m like, “You have no process for success at all.” So, it’s really interesting. And then they’re like, “Well, how do I get one?” And I’m like, “You have to start at the beginning.” You have to go through that journey. When you onboard an employee, do you have an employee onboarding that’s even documented? Most people don’t. And I know many of us, because my daughter’s going through it as she’s a new hire right now, I’m like, “So how’s the employee onboarding going?” Because usually I can ask that question of an employee or an employer and just get different answers, and she’s like, “Oh my God, it’s so 1980s.” And I’m like, okay, so that… This is a lot of what we hold onto, right? It’s like it’s good enough. And that’s really danger ground for a modern workforce. The reason that the marketplaces are what they are and all these new technology aspects are is because we have a new type of employee, we have a new type of customer, and we have to be cognizant of that. So what used to work has changed drastically over the pandemic. I don’t need to tell you that, George. We constantly talk about change in the markets, but connecting those two together, they’re not separate. That’s the thing I think we make the mistake of assuming is that, well, I’m going to focus on this customer success opportunity. It’s like, well, how am I going to deliver that? I can’t deliver that autonomously. I need people, even still today, even in technology land. We’re not there yet. So that’s some of the focus I would say that most people need to connect the dots on.
Cybersecurity Education and Awareness
George Leith: You just got me thinking about a shot that I took once, and I think it was a calculated risk, but it needed to be said. And we’ve known each other for a while. I’m probably straightforward to a fault sometimes, but a CEO of an organization we were working with, and we sat down after I spent a week with the organization, and I’d always thought that the CEO was next level. And one of the things I was impressed with was he was like, “Here’s somebody who has not worked with us before, just spent a week with our teams. I’m going to ask them what they think.” And my one piece of advice, I said, “You know, if I was sitting in your chair, I’d be looking for a new head of HR.” And I had only spent one coffee talking to that individual, and it was not about the individual, it was more about the issue. And the issue was they were still hiring for the company that they were and not the company that they wanted to be. And so it’s an interesting thing that you talk about there. If we want to have a customer-obsessed organization, are we hiring people that have that skillset of being customer-obsessed? And then how do we onboard them and how do we train them and how do we give them success metrics? It’s all tied together. And so I love the way that you articulate that message because a lot of times when we go into organizations, whether it be managed service providers or it doesn’t matter, insert company here, they do not have a customer success motion. They are not measuring NPS, net promoter score, to see if people like them or not. And then they’re definitely not even measuring that for their internal teams. And I think that the internal teams, those are customers too. They’re just internal customers and they have to be as bought in because they’re the ones on the front lines talking to your clients. So I love the way that you articulate that. The book, we’re going to put all of the links in there. Here’s one of the things I’ve always been impressed with Juan since the day that I met him. He gives so much back. And as a result of that, you’ve been enormously successful in your work with numerous managed service providers, but we also have one more thing that we have to talk about, and that is your other gig where you are really embedded into cybersecurity. So can we talk a little bit about that?
Juan Fernandez: Yeah. My other gig is the Global Channel Chief for HacWare. It is a cybersecurity education and awareness company. Again, back to my roots of education. I think that the true role that a managed services provider or a technology solution provider or anybody that’s in tech, I came from that. When I first started at a company called AOL, my job was to help people understand what there was on the internet to actually be able to deliver some sort of attraction. And so in that, it was like, “Hey, well, you go to these places or do these things and have this fun and here’s the things that are specific to you.” And I think that we lost that along the way. I don’t think… All of us, we got on the internet super fast, and I always do this, and I love to raise this question to a large audience and say, “How many of us here know how to get on the internet appropriately? Raise your hand if you know how to get on the internet if you know how to do this. You’re like, ‘Oh, Juan, I know how to get on the internet.'” And it’s like, no, none of us. None of us. There’s no manual for that. It just happened. And that’s even more concerning when we think about our children. And so one of my big passions is education. I think we should be educating the world about cybersecurity. We should be educating everyone about the opportunities so that we can protect ourselves and our families from it. And that’s one of the big initiatives with HacWare, and I’m really excited too because that’s a wonderful, spectacular team. Jump over to HacWare.com, look at all the wonderful resources, even if you’re just a business owner or you’re a person just in life, in liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it’s important for us to understand our social responsibility, what that means to ourselves, to our businesses, to our families, to our loved ones. We all have a responsibility. And now we’re just having to learn these new ways of doing things. And what does the internet mean to me and to my business? And how do I protect my family from it? I know we all have… If you have children, you know what I’m talking about. All of us are probably somewhat a little apprehensive knowing what they have access to and the things that they’re doing, and are we giving them the right education? And that’s where I think for me, I take it super responsibly to say, “Look, I’m going to help the technology solution provider and anybody that wants to listen learn about cybersecurity education.” And that’s really what HacWare’s mission is and I’m really proud to be there and help them grow that.
George Leith: Well, and all we have to do is look at our inbox and there’s somebody in there trying to hack us pretty much on a daily basis. So it is something top of mind. We don’t have to go too far to find companies, and I mean very large organizations that should have their shit together, that have been shut down for 6, 8, 10 months in components of their business because they’ve been hacked. So this is definitely something that we need to be paying attention to. And I’m glad that you’re on the education side of it because that’s where it lines up. Ladies and gentlemen, my good friend Juan, the Chief Encouragement Officer of the MSP Growth Coalition. We’re going to put all of the great connections to get ahold of Juan in the show notes. And we did it, my friend. We got you on the Conquer Local podcast.
Juan Fernandez: We got it. We did it.
George Leith: We appreciate your time and it’s been great speaking to you.
Juan Fernandez: You too. It was wonderful to have you, George, and to be here with you. Thank you, man.
George Leith: It was a pleasure speaking to my good friend Juan Fernandez. Juan focuses on the process of empowering people to be successful, for instance, helping managed service providers unlock success and building great teams. It’s something worth mentioning, the importance of educating people about cybersecurity. It’s up to us to understand our social responsibility and what it means to ourselves, our families, and our communities. And you can tell that Juan is very passionate about giving back to the industry that has made him so successful over the years. If you liked Juan Fernandez’s episode discussing empowering managed service providers in achieving success, let’s continue this conversation. Check out the Episode 415: Analyzing the IT Channel with our own Andrew Down, or Episode 320: Defining SaaS Channel Partners with Janet Shines. Defining SaaS channel partners with Janet Schijns. Please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and thanks for joining us this week on the Conquer Local podcast. My name is George Leith.