626: Unlocking Career Potential: Advice from a Talent Management Expert | Suman Cherry

Podcast Cover Image: Unlocking Career Potential: Advice from a Talent Management Expert featuring Suman Cherry
Podcast Cover Image: Unlocking Career Potential: Advice from a Talent Management Expert featuring Suman Cherry

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On this episode of the Conquer Local Podcast, we chat with Suman Cherry, the Chief Executive Officer & Founder of Cherry Talent Group.

Suman has over 20 years of recruiting experience, during which she has successfully placed over 500 employees across industries such as medical, oil & gas, construction, and real estate. Suman’s expertise lies in being a hiring “matchmaker,” dedicated to understanding both her clients’ and candidates’ needs. 

Her approach involves comprehending the distinct qualities of each company, emphasizing long-term relationships based on trust, and aligning candidates not only with the required skills but also with the client’s vision and culture.

Join us to gain valuable insights from this accomplished professional and learn more about her strategies for building successful connections between employers and talent.

Conquer Local listeners can connect with Suman Cherry on LinkedIn for a free 30-minute expert consultation. This consultation aims to provide guidance and support to both clients and candidates.

Conquer Local is presented by Vendasta. We have proudly served 5.5+ million local businesses through 60,000+ channel partners. Learn more about Vendasta and we can help your organization or learn more about Vendasta’s Affiliate Program and how our listeners (like yourself) are making up to $10,000 off referrals.

Are you an entrepreneur, salesperson, or marketer? Keep the learning going in the Conquer Local Academy.

Unlocking Career Potential: Advice from a Talent Management Expert


Jeff Tomlin: Welcome to the Conquer Local Podcast! Our show features successful sales leaders, marketers, thought leaders and entrepreneurs who will inspire you with their success stories. Each episode is packed with practical strategies, as our guests share their secrets to achieving their dreams. Listen in and learn the highlights of their remarkable accomplishments and get tips to revamp, rework, and reimagine your business. Whether you’re a small business owner, marketer, or aspiring entrepreneur, the Conquer Local Podcast is your ultimate guide to dominating your local market. Tune in now and take your business to the next level! 

I’m Jeff Tomlin and on this episode, we’re pleased to welcome Suman Cherry. Suman is the Chief Executive officer & Founder of Cherry Talent Group. With over 20 years of experience in recruiting, she successfully placed over 500 employees in industries such as medical, oil & gas, construction, and real estate. She is dedicated to understanding the needs of her clients and candidates and takes pride in being a hiring “matchmaker.” With a focus on understanding the unique qualities of each company, Cherry Talent Group prioritizes nurturing long-term relationships based on trust with a goal to find candidates who not only possess the required skills but also align with the client’s vision and their culture.

Get ready Conquerors for Suman Cherry coming up next on this week’s episode of the Conquer Local Podcast.

Importance of People in Organizations, Talent Recruitment and Passion for Helping

Jeff: There’s nothing more important in an organization than the people that are in or around on the team. Over the years at Vendasta and through all the different iterations, and the milestones that we’ve hit, I can point to one thing that is the most important thing to get us through those milestones, and it’s been the team around us. The team’s gone through a lot of different iterations over the years, but I always look back and it’s the people that have been around us that had helped us get to where we got to go. And so this week I am thrilled to have Suman Cherry, the owner of Cherry Talent Group, with us to talk about talent. Suman, welcome to the Conquer Local podcast. How are you doing?

Suman: I’m good, Jeff. How are you?

Jeff: I am doing good this week.

Suman: Right. It’s any given day, right?

Jeff: Any given day, any given day. Why don’t you give us a little bit of the history about your company, where you came from, who’s your mom, how’d you get to where you’re here now?

Suman: So I have been doing recruiting for about 20-plus years. I started off in recruiting, in medical recruiting, a number of years ago, and I did medical recruiting, then I moved into oil and gas recruiting ’cause I moved to Houston, and I did that for a long time. And I started my own firm about 12 years ago. And most of my career has been mostly on the contingent side of recruiting. Obviously, recruiting has some different elements, you know. Most people either have someone in-house or they outsource the recruiting piece, they use contingent recruiters. And typically the way a contingent recruiter works is they pay a percentage of a placement fee. Well, I did that for a long time, and I realized that there was a new model that needed to be created, and that’s where Cherry Talent Group came from. I had a client ask me during COVID if I would do some contract work for them. And I did, and I loved it. I loved the communication piece with working with clients on such a more deeper, intimate, more consultative level, and I enjoyed the time I got to spend with candidates, versus it being this robotic transactional experience for it to be like a human-to-human connection. So I launched my company about a little less than a year ago, so it’s pretty new, and it’s done really well. I’ve had just tremendous success, and we’ve had a lot of referrals, a lot of wins, but more than anything, it’s just fun to do something and offer something that’s different that’s out there and that’s something that helps people, because, like you said, your talent is so important, the people that work in your organizations are so important, and it’s so important where you work, you know like it’s so much of your life is the people in your, the companies you work with, and you work with, and your leaders and your coworkers, and you bring that home with you. So I’m just really passionate about that piece.

Cost-Effective Talent Recruitment, Focus on Values, and Growth-Oriented Mindset

Jeff: You know, it’s interesting, so you mentioned that you sort of iterated on the talent model. And that’s interesting to me because one of the pushbacks that organizations, at least at our organization, people that I’ve talked to, but working with a talent agency is the cost of recruiting. And, you know, it was an easy answer for us. As you get to a certain size, you get to a point where in order to fill, you know, specialized roles in your organization becomes important to find other venues of finding talent and it becomes more difficult to find top talent for key positions. And you know, so when we work through the process, you know, the answer for us at the end of the day, well, what’s the opportunity cost of having a vacant role of a really critical position in your company? But maybe talk a little bit more about, you know, how and why you iterated on sort of the cost model there.

Suman: So for me it was, and I don’t wanna say, I never wanna go to a negative place. I’ve been in recruiting for a long time. But the traditional contingent model didn’t sit well with me anymore. It was a lot of risk. It’s a lot of risk for companies. Actually, for a recruiter, it’s very stressful, because it’s a very hustle mentality because it is a transactional experience. I mean, you only make money if you place that candidate. And yeah, the placement fee’s high, but this amount of stress and the attachment you form with candidates, it’s an interesting dynamic because there’s a lack of transparency, there’s a lack of authenticity. So if a red flag pops up or if there’s sort of discussion that happens, because candidates are, they do have vulnerable conversations with the recruiters. And so sometimes those conversations, you uncover something like, “Mm, this is something that needs to be brought up to my client.” And maybe you don’t bring that conversation up to your client, your reservations about a candidate. And on the flip side, maybe you know something about the client that’s not gonna align to the candidate. Because if you’re someone who’s worked, you’re looking for work-life balance and you’re looking for this and this, specific things, and the company that you’re working with, you’re working 50, 60 hours a week, that’s just how the energy of the environment is. Maybe it won’t be the right match for you, or maybe you’re commuting a long distance. There’s a lot of pieces to it. So for me, Cherry Talent Group allows me to create a model where I’m able to help people, and I could save my clients a lot of money because the way that, you know, traditionally the way that, it’s usually a 20 to 25% placement fee for first, you know, the first year salary, which ends up being for a $100,000 candidate 20 to $25,000 with some of it a guarantee of six months to a year. Well, things are unpredictable at times, right? So with this model, you pay for the amount of time that I put into it, and typically, it’s half and even less, and it’s flexible because maybe it’s not a situation where you want us to help with every piece of it. You want sourcing, you need market data, there’s special projects, and all those pieces go into it with us. There’s a lot of flexibility with it.

Jeff: You know, you said at the beginning there, say it can be a stressful process. And I can relate to that because we’ve gone through a number of scenarios where we’ve worked with recruiters to find the right talent. And it’s a stressful process for us, for the recruiter, especially with the process drags out. And I can tell any interviewing, you know, the situation for job seekers too can be a stressful, you know, scenario. So I’m assuming-

Suman: Yeah.

Jeff: I’m assuming that you don’t work with everyone that comes your way in terms of a talent that’s seeking placement, so what are some of the characteristics of an ideal candidate that you guys work with?

Suman: Candidate wise or client-side? Like the types of clients, we work with?

Jeff: Maybe do one and then the other.

Suman: Okay, so for candidates, let’s start with the candidate side, we do interviews with our candidates. We understand it’s much more than just a resume. Like, someone’s resume is just a snapshot of someone’s professional career, what they’ve done, and who they are. We really understand who is this person outside of the work environment. How do they handle stress? How do they handle disappointment? How do they handle failures? How do they handle criticism? So we are looking for people who have a growth-oriented set, a mindset. You know, we’re looking for someone who’s made mistakes, understands their mistakes, takes responsibilities for those mistakes, and learn from those mistakes. We’re looking for someone who lives their life with strong values, and we really try to gauge that on that initial conversation. We ask a lot of questions. Tell me about your, you know, tell me about what you like to do as a kid, tell me about what type of hobbies you have. We want to  understand who this person is, and that’s what we really look for. We try to look beyond just a resume ’cause everyone has a story, right? And we wanna understand, what is your story? What is your story? And what do you really need? What are you looking for? And do we have something that matches what you’re needing as well on that side? On the candidate side or the client side, we look for, we are really upfront with our clients. This model is a lot of communication. We expect, like, a lot of communication. Like when we need feedback within 24 hours, we wanna know if you don’t like a candidate we sent, we wanna know why, we wanna understand it, we wanna know who all the players are in the interview process, we wanna understand all the pieces that are important. So we look for companies that understand that communication is paramount. And we also look for companies that are growing and companies that have, I mean, as far as we can tell initially with clients, have a strong culture, have a good value system, have a mission, and care about their people. That’s a big deal for us.

Talent Agencies Streamline Hiring and Tech may Lack Human Connection

Jeff: Yeah. You know, I can speak from experience that the times that we’ve worked with a recruiter mostly always had good experiences. And there are some guarantees too that come along with the process that you don’t get, you know, when you’re hiring people and through, you know, your own pipeline. And so we’ve always had a great experience, I’d say always almost all the time. And so it makes a question like, you know, when is the right time for a company to engage with a talent agency?

Suman: I think there are a couple of trainer thoughts. I mean, ideally, I think you should leave it to an expert to handle all of it. It is tedious to go through hundreds of resumes. It is tedious to interview, pre-interview people, to set up interviews, to unschedule the interviews, and to follow up. And if you wanna create a system that’s seamless, working with an external recruiter, whether it be like my company or another type of external recruiter, is going to be the most success for you. Because if not, you’re having people, first of all, that don’t do this, there is an expertise to it, and they’re having to take away from their own other responsibilities and handle this, and second of all, it delays the whole process and then you have a retention issue, because if people in those organizations and you’re waiting for this person to get hired and other people are doing the jobs of three or four people, that’s a problem as well. It burns out morale in the organization. So I don’t have, I mean, internal recruiters, internal HR people, they’re great, but they, on traditionally, when they’re working for a company, they’re working on a lot of positions at a time, a lot, to be able to sustain having an internal recruiter or those types of pieces. And they’re not really digging in as deep as what a recruiter would. And even on the contingent recruiter side, in order for them to be able to be successful, they have to work with 15 to 20, 10, 15 clients at a time. They’re working on a lot of things. They’re not putting their energy into one thing. Versus us, we are very consultative in our nature. We’re there, like if you need us, we’re there to follow up with you, answer any questions you have to, and we go so deep that we have all these candidates always tell us like, “Wow, like you guys really take the time to listen to us. I feel like a robot a lot of times, you know, when people call me, or I feel like the recruiter is,” and for me that’s huge.

Jeff: Yeah, Suman, you know, like obviously technology is changing all sorts of things in our world. I imagine technology has changed your industry, and maybe talk a little bit about how technological advances have changed the work that you do, and are there any positives specifically you wanna call out, or any negatives that impact the whole process?

Suman: Well, when I started recruiting, there was nothing, there was no LinkedIn, there was no, I don’t even know of Indeed, maybe it was around, but it was Monster, it was CareerBuilder, and it was mailers. So it’s definitely changed a lot. On the positive side, yeah, I think the technology piece is great. Like you are able to put that job description out there and more people are able to see that’s available, they can do a lot more research on their own about the companies, who they are as an organization beforehand, so those are all very positives. I think the AI piece and all those stuff for content writing is great. I think it’s all amazing, but I think there’s always a negative to a positive, so for me, there’s a lack of human connection, I think, that has happened in the recruiting world. I think the issue is when you have these systems and there’s like specific keywords and all these kinds of things, you miss out on the opportunity for a lot of candidates maybe just didn’t fill all that on a resume or the resume didn’t show who they really are, you know? And so I think that’s another piece because a lot of times clients have these very specific requirements and the requirements tend to be very big, and some of those are teachable, you know, learnable. So I tell my clients, what’s a requirement versus a preference? Like what is, you know, and how do you put that into a computer system? I mean, how do you put that technology? It’s missing that human component, that conversation you have. When I talk to candidates, when I talk to clients, I’m always trying to understand the story, you know?

Jeff: Yeah, I can relate, and, you know, and through the different, you know, places or roles that I’ve filled, I always, I could say almost all the time, but at most of the times when I’ve done more interviews than I wanted to do, I’ve connected with a candidate that I might not necessarily identified on paper as being the top one, but you learn so much from having an interaction with somebody. And, you know, relying on data and process just isn’t enough sometimes because, you know, at least from my perspective, finding the right person is, you know, right at the front and center of that is finding someone that is gonna be the ideal match for your team. And that’s not often skills, it’s, you know, personality and how will they interact with the different personalities on your team and how do they align with your values. And you can’t really get that without talking to someone.

Suman: Yeah, I think the value piece is, and in anything in life, is so important because those values is not just something we bring into our work environment, it’s what we bring into our families from the start of the day. I mean, my belief is that if you are someone who has an abundant mindset, a growth mindset and you’re always looking for ways to, I don’t wanna say better about yourself, but you take responsibility, accountability, you’re not so reactive, you know, reactive base, you are able to have a response base type of personality, that’s something that translates in all areas of your life, so it’s not just in a work environment. And those types of people, those are the candidates and companies that bring them on, there’s a lot of opportunity for growth for them because they can hold a lot of space. There’s not this, “Oh, but that’s not my job, but that’s not my job, that’s my job.” You know, “It’s like we work as a team. We wanna get the job done. I’m able to pitch in.” And the company, good companies recognize that from their people as well. They also recognize that just because someone’s a super high producer, they may not be the right person for their organization ’cause that person might be creating, if they’re toxic or they have a negative mindset, that is like a cancer for a company. So good companies understand that as well. Bringing in people that are a little bit fresher, that can learn, that have the right mindset, the right values, that’s so invaluable.

Preparing your Resume and Treating Job Search Seriously

Jeff: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, by the way, and you already touched on it. So you have a candidate who has the perfect skillset, maybe even more than what you thought, so could execute the job perfectly, but might not be an ideal culture fit for the organization, versus somebody who might not have quite as much experience but is a perfect culture fit. Who do you pick and who do you place?

Suman: So for me, if I find, if I have a, like this very difficult like unicorn position, you know, then this person has every single thing, but maybe they don’t have the right attitude, right? Like, you know, there’s something, you can feel it out. You’re asking the questions, they’re blaming everyone for everything, they’re not taking responsibility, they’re blaming their boss, they’re blaming their dog, they’re blaming everyone. Well, first of all, I’m gonna have a conversation with my client, right? I’m not gonna make that decision on my own. I’m gonna have that conversation with my client. I’m gonna let them know up front what it is, and give my suggestion. If my client chooses to have the conversation, and sometimes they do, right, that’s their choice, but I’m gonna give them the choice and I’m always gonna give them my authenticity. On the flip side, if I have a candidate that maybe doesn’t fit all the boxes, but man, they are a go-getter, man, they are excited, they’re hungry, they’re motivated, and they’ve got some really good foundation, I’m also gonna present that to my client and recommend they call them as well. And that’s happened quite a bit. It happens all the time. And typically my clients know me pretty well. So if I say it’s got kind of a, I don’t know, he was having a bad day, I don’t know what’s going on, my clients are like, “If he’s rude to you, if she or he is rude to you, that’s a problem for us,” right? So just, it’s a little grey, but I try to be transparent and authentic, but give my opinion too.

Jeff: Yeah, always leery of red flags, and at least from our perspective here, always like to make sure that we hire slow and to make sure that we’ve got the right culture fit for somebody on our team. So anyways, you’ve, obviously, you’ve been doing this a while, you’ve got a ton of experience, and so for the people who might be listening that are out, and they’re out career hunting right now, share some of your, you know, your top tips and things that they should be doing to become attractive candidates for potential organizations.

Suman: Well, first of all, it’s a full-time job looking for a new job. So it is very discouraging, it is very frustrating, it is really difficult on your self-esteem, and rejection never feels good, and that is the truth. We are human beings, we have lots of emotions, and it never feels good, it just doesn’t. It can be very, very exhausting and laborious, and it is just a very difficult process. Some of the things that I would say is, number one if you are already in a position and you’re already thinking, “Mm, maybe I need to start looking,” start the process before you are in a place where you have to make some difficult choices, like where you have more opportunity to make better options at that point. Your resume, you know, most candidates will just dust off a resume, and throw a couple of things on there, but recruiters look at resumes, that’s the first thing they look at. They spend, I think, I read it was like seven seconds for a resume, eight seconds per resume. And that’s how quick it is, right? So your resume, first of all, it’s as simple as, make sure there are no spelling mistakes, and make sure the formatting is right. Take that time for it, you know, make sure that you are talking about your successes, what you’ve done for these organizations that you’ve been part of. Not just the yes you want the meat and potatoes piece, but what makes that you apart as a candidate? What makes someone wanna, they want you for their organization? You know what I mean? And everyone has those success stories, and those success stories need to be on there. I would also treat it like a full-time job as well. Like give yourself goals, give yourself accountability for it. You know, how many positions am I gonna apply for today? What am I gonna… I’m going to go on LinkedIn and I’m going do my own network, I’m going to look at my networks. People don’t realize how many people they’re afraid to ask. But there’s so many people that you’re connected with already that you don’t even, because some jobs don’t even get posted, right, or they’re only posted for a short period of time. A lot of times those LinkedIn positions, they have the hiring manager, you can reach out to them, you can connect with them, you can… There’s LinkedIn groups you can be part of. When you’re in Indeed, update that resume, make sure it’s updated so it gets put on the top of the search, ’cause, you know, it’s all about that. You need to treat it like, put a lot of energy into it, and take criticism. You know, if you’ve interviewed for a lot, a lot of jobs and it’s like, “Why am I not landing this?” So is there a confidence piece? You need to practice. Interviewing is difficult sometimes, you know? Practice, get to know that company, understand, do I really want to work for this company? You know, that kind of piece as well. That’s what I would recommend.

Efficient Recruiting Process, Valuing Yourself and Treating People Well

Jeff: I was sharing with one of my other guests on the show, Nick Padilla, that my very first venture in online marketing, I had created a website way back in, oh, not to date myself again, but I’ll do it again because I like doing that, I guess, 1996 I created a website and marketed resume and cover letter templates, and that we’d create templates in Microsoft Word at the time and we zipped them up in a ZIP file and had a downloadable ZIP file of resume cover letter templates. Anyways, so way back then, I used to say a lot when we were doing this, people would go to university and they would spend, you know, four years or more of their lives and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars getting marketable skills, and then they would spend very, very, an incredibly small amount of time actually marketing those skills once they actually got it. And that’s what a resume is, and perfecting how to talk in an interview and how to answer questions confidently, how to research an employer, you know, it’s all part of marketing those skills that you’ve got at the end of the day, and you’d think you’d need to put the same amount of effort into marketing those skills as you did getting those skills and whether that was going to university or whether it was gaining those skills over, you know, a long career. But it’s something that should give candidates pause as to how much effort they, you know, they should put into marketing themselves.

Suman: I mean, I think it’s very important. You know what I mean? I think it’s highly important because you just have a very small, few seconds to grab someone’s attention. And there’s resume writers that can definitely help you write your resume. I mean, you can go on Etsy and pull up a template for a resume and you can use that. I mean, they have people, there’s a lot of opportunities out there. You just have to figure out what, you have to make the effort to do it. You know what I mean? Because I know it can be very discouraging, like especially you lose your job and it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I gotta go find a job,” and I get that. But you’re better off taking that energy and spending the time on that resume and really marketing yourself. Having a nice LinkedIn profile, and having a professional photo up there, those are important pieces, they really are.

Jeff: Yeah, so, you know, these are foundational things, being able to recruit on the one side and build a team and, you know, on the other side, being able to market skills and match that up with an ideal organization. Suman, what are some of the top takeaways that you wanna leave the audience with here?

Suman: So I think one of the main places is that you know, recruiting doesn’t have to be this ghosting. I mean, the worst, one of the things that really frustrates me so much is what I hear from candidates who’ve interviewed four, or five, six times for a company and they never even got a call back from a recruiter or from the company, and they took all that time. And it’s not that the company didn’t intentionally, it’s not like the recruiter didn’t intentionally, it’s just the process itself is so tedious and the process itself is so exhausting for companies that it doesn’t have to be that way. It can be a really, an easier process if you give up that control, you let someone else, an expert handle that, the job descriptions. I mean, I’ll give you a prime example, as simple as I’ve had clients who send these pages, six-page job descriptions and I’m like, “Okay, this isn’t gonna work, right? Like, there’s nothing about you.” So, you know, I think it’s so important to understand as an organization when you are bringing on people, whether you use a recruiter or do it in-house or whatever else, to treat people like people. This is a human-to-human connection. And you don’t know, just because you don’t hire someone for a role, you don’t know where that person’s gonna play in your life later in your career or something like that. And as an organization, you want to keep good bridges, you wanna be known as a company that treats everyone well, even when you’re going through the hiring process. And on the candidate side, I think it’s, you need to know your worth. Don’t devalue yourself. You know, don’t devalue yourself. Don’t ask for $30,000 less than what you really want and then stay there for six months and leave. Get the job where it’s gonna be… Or if there’s additional skills you need to go get, maybe you need other software systems or there’s a lack somewhere, go do it. You know, put yourself in the driver’s seat on that end.

Getting in Touch with Suman Cherry for a Free Consultation

Jeff: Suman, it has been an absolute pleasure having this conversation with you. How can people contact you, and reach out to you if they wanna continue the conversation?

Suman: So I mean, I have my website, cherrytalentgroup.com. I’m also all over LinkedIn, so you can find me on there. I’m also going to be offering a 30-minute expert consultation. And this is for clients or candidates, and there’s no cost, it’s just, if you want some, if you’re a candidate and you want some guidance on how do I even get started in this, yeah, like let’s talk, right? If you need some, you want me to look at your resume, happy to do that. If you want me to help you show you things on LinkedIn, happy to do that. On a client-side, if you’re a client, a potential client and you want to know how you’ve worked with recruiting agencies, maybe you haven’t, maybe you are the owner of your company and you’re tired of doing everything and you wanna know how we’re different, let’s chat, you know, let’s chat and see if we’re a good partnership. We’re looking for long-term partners, we’re looking… We’re gonna be opening a candidate side to our business as well where we’re gonna be like a cheerleader for candidates. We really want to help them as well because we want to change the whole process of the ickiness of the whole thing. We want it to be cleaner and more open and transparent, authentic, and for it to be a true human-to-human connection, you know?

Jeff: Yeah, it’s a process of creating relationships, especially long-lasting relationships that last, you know, a lifetime or a business lifetime. And so it’s hard work and it sounds like that’s the type of organization that you are. It’s an absolute pleasure having you on the show. I hope that we can-

Suman: Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it.

Jeff: Hope that we can do this again sometime, and we’ve got a fantastic offer from you to the audience. And with that, I’ll say, I hope you have a fantastic week, a fantastic summer, and it was a pleasure chatting with you.

Suman: You too. Thank you so much.


Jeff: Lots of valuable insights from our conversation with Suman Cherry. One key takeaway from the conversation is the importance of transparency and human connection in the recruiting process. Suman believes in building genuine relationships with candidates and clients, prioritizing open communication and understanding their individual needs beyond just a resume. By fostering transparency and authenticity, she creates a more positive and effective experience for all the parties involved.

Another key takeaway is the emphasis on accountability and a growth mindset in the job search. Suman advises job seekers to approach their search with a proactive mindset, treating it as a full-time job and taking ownership of their progress. She encourages candidates to showcase their accomplishments, maintain a well-crafted resume, and utilize professional networking platforms like LinkedIn. Suman also highlights the significance of handling rejection gracefully, learning from it, and continuously growing in confidence. By adopting a mindset of abundance, being accountable for their job search, and embracing personal growth, individuals can enhance their chances of finding a better opportunity.

If you’ve enjoyed Suman’s episode discussing Unlocking Career Potential: Advice from a Talent Management Expert. Keep the conversation going and visit some of our older episodes. Check out Episode 608: 5 Skills of Innovators and Entrepreneurs with Bob Moesta or Episode 533: Emotional Intelligence with Colleen Stanley

Until next time, I’m Jeff Tomlin. Get out there and be awesome! 

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