526: Selling From The Heart | Larry Levine

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Larry Levine joins us this week on the Conquer Local Podcast, to highlight the importance of inner self-awareness and how it links to the overall success – both physically and mentally. Larry Levine is the best-selling author of Selling from the Heart and the co-host of the Selling from the Heart Podcast. Larry has 30 years of in-the-field sales experience within the B2B technology space knowing what it takes to be a successful sales professional, and the importance of taking a second to debrief. In particular, Larry encouraged waking up an hour earlier every morning to focus on ourselves without distractions to get our brains focused and avoid burnout. 

In a post-trust sales world, Larry Levine helps sales teams leverage the power of authenticity to grow revenue, grow themselves, and enhance the lives of their clients. He coached sales professionals globally, from tenured reps to new millennials entering the salesforce. They all appreciated the practical, real, raw, relevant, relatable, and “street-savvy” nature of his coaching. Larry is not shy when delivering his messages, and believes people would rather do business with a sales professional who sells from the heart, as opposed to a sales representative who is an empty suit.

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George: This is the “Conquer Local” podcast, a show about billion-dollar sales leaders, marketers leading local economic growth, and entrepreneurs that have created their dream organizations. They want to share with you their secrets, giving you the distilled version of their extraordinary feats. Our hope is, that with the tangible takeaways from each episode, you can rewire, rework, and reimagine your business. I’m George Leith. In this episode, we welcome Larry Levine. Larry spent his career selling copiers in LA and eventually buying into the copier dealership, which he expanded and then sold. His journey truly started in 2014. He was facing the challenge of prospecting for new business in one of America’s most competitive markets, and he secured over 1.3 million in new business by integrating the use of social and authenticity. At 50, Larry decided to give himself one last shot. He spoke at the Xerox event at the Bellagio and started his podcast, “Selling From the Heart”, and in the fall of 2017, convinced his business partner to write “Selling From the Heart”, the book which has allowed him to fly all over the world to share his insights. Get ready, Conquerors. Larry Levine is coming up next on this week’s episode of the “Conquer Local” podcast. I said to the team, we gotta get Larry Levine on the show, so I’m very happy to have him here. I gushed in the intro, Larry, so I’m just telling you, there’s some gushing.

Larry: You may not, you may not be happy to have me afterwards, but it’s an honor. Thanks, man.

George: Well, I’m super pumped to have you on the show and I’ve long been a fan of your work. I’ve had many conversations over the years where I hear people say I’d sure like to get into sales. Those people in sales look like they’re having a lot of fun. And you know, there’s a reason that there’s such potential for reward because it’s really hard. You and I both know that sales is really hard, and it takes a lot of work. And there are a lot of headaches and being able to deal with the downs of sales, takes a bit of a toll on you. So what I’d love to understand, to kick this whole thing off, is your perspective on self-reflection and self-care in the sales world, Larry.

Larry: So it’s so interesting that you bring this up because everyone’s gonna go, where are you going with this? But just follow along for just a moment. I mean, I write about it in “Selling From the Heart”. Sales is tough. I call it a full-contact sport. You’re gonna get knocked down. You’re gonna have to pick yourself back up, but here’s what’s interesting. It’s so tough, it’s a mental drain, and I’m saying this ’cause I walked right through it and I continue to walk right through it. It’s tough, it wears on us. It wears on our minds, it wears on our heart, it wears on our body, but what I learned a long time ago is we mask it a lot of times in sales. And when I learned the power of doing the inner work, in other words, taking care of the inner part of who I was, it started to help with the outer success I was having. So what I mean by self-reflection is just how we start our mornings. How do you start your morning? What do you do? What’s that routine? What’s that first 30 minutes look like? What’s that first 45 minutes look like? How do you on your heart, mind, and body in 30 minutes? The self-care part of this is how you really take care of yourself. And you know a lot of us, I’m gonna throw in the health just for a second, George, on this, but a lot of us, we’re health-conscious. For a vast majority of us, we’re health-conscious, but health-conscious to the point where we just do physical exercise and so forth. But to me, heart health and becoming healthy is working on the alignment of mind, body, and heart, and that’s the power of self-care. And I think all of this has to become congruent, especially if you want to have a healthy sales lifestyle.

George: There’s a lot there. If I look back over my career in sales, there were moments where it’s just, you’re knocking it outta the park, and then you go through moments where it’s not going so well, and then you knock it outta the park again. And what I wasn’t doing in those early years of selling was understanding what were the conditions that were leading to that level of success, so that I could have less of the peaks and valleys and really start to even it out and start to stack it, so that we were really growing. So it was just this kind of, oh, things are going great, and then I didn’t really change any of the core components, so was it more luck or was it, you know, salespeople like to say, “I make my own luck,” but we got this up and down thing. So I really want to understand this, because this is the theme that you’re talking about is taking care of you, the individual, the things that you’re gonna do to make you a peak performer.

Larry: I wish I would’ve learned this long, long, long time ago, and I really didn’t learn it probably until into like my mid-thirties, is the harder I worked on myself, the more successful I became. You know, I heard the peaks and valleys. We can call them roller coasters or whatever. Let’s just face it, in sales, it’s just an endless rollercoaster unless you do something about it. But here’s the peaks and valleys part of this, is sometimes the valleys could be massive. They could be Grand Canyon-esque in size, because we just go down it really fast, and then everything just becomes a crap hole. But it’s what are you doing every single day to work on your mind? What are you doing every single day to work on your heart? And I found that, when I started doing that on a consistent basis, it picked me up out of these valleys and roller coasters a whole heck of a lot faster.

George: Larry, I wanted to ask a question, because you’ve mentioned the heart and I’ve read through your material and listened to your podcast. Is this about caring? Is it about caring about yourself? Is it about caring about the customer, like, explain that to me?

Larry: It’s all of it. I call it giving a rip, and to me is, and just follow along with me, and I’m not here to disrespect anybody when I say this, is if we don’t take care of ourselves, how do we take care of our clients and how do we take care of our future clients? I’m a big believer the way you take care of yourself is exactly the way you’re gonna take care of your clients, and we can do so much better. And that’s why I just said, you know, how would you define care? To me, care is just giving a rip. It’s giving a rip about yourself. It’s giving a rip about your company. It’s giving a rip about your clients, your future clients, how you care for yourself, or how do you carry yourself in the marketplace. These are just the little subtle things that I think, oftentimes in sales, whether you’re a sales leader or you’re a sales professional, we push off to the side, because we’re always chasing the number. And I know, I know numbers come into this, but what I’m gonna ask everybody is chase the inner part of who you are, the chase for how you take care of yourself and watch what happens. And I’ll drill down one step farther on this, George is I’m just gonna bring in professional athletics just for a second, ’cause I’m just a sports geek. I don’t care what professional athlete you follow, what professional sport you follow, the underlying theme, if you follow any of these people, is they take massive care of themselves. The success they have out on the pitch or out in the field or out on the court, out on the ice rink, if it’s hockey, all boils down to how well do they take care of themselves, their mind, their heart, their body. They have coaches that help them do all this, that allows them to have success out in the field. The same thing could be applied to sales. It’s the difference between being a sales rep and being a sales professional, and I just ask everyone to think about that.

George: It’s interesting, because when we’re coaching a sales rep, and I’m sure you have this happen a lot when you’re doing some of your deployments, you can pretty much see it without even talking to them, just the way they’re carrying themselves, you can tell if they’re on target or they’re not on target. You could tell if they’ve done the hard work, or, again, taking care of yourself is not selfish. It’s about making sure that you’re able to do the things that you need to do as a professional. I’m sure you’ve heard this analogy, but I just want to test it on you, the 60/30/10. 60% of your time talking to customers, 30% of your time getting better at your craft, and 10% of your time doing admin. You know, I was in an organization last week working with a sales team, and they were like, it’s not that way. We’re doing 60% admin. We spend less than 10% of their time getting better at our craft, and maybe 30% of our time talking to customers. You know, if you start to look at your day with 60/30/10 and dial in your efforts, you’re then gonna have that time to spend that 30% on you and getting better at what you do.

Larry: This is my challenge, is uncover where in the morning or where in the day your brain works the best and capitalize on it. Here’s where I’ll double-dog dare everybody right now. I dare you to wake up an hour early. Just wake up one hour early. I know y’all can do it. It’s just a matter of committing to it and having some discipline, and just think about what you can do if you recaptured one hour, every single morning, and you worked on yourself. You didn’t check your email. You didn’t check your phone, right? You didn’t cruise the news. You didn’t read the paper. You didn’t do all that. You spent one solid hour working on yourself. That’s five hours a week. Now, here’s the other thing, do it seven days a week, and do that consistently for 90 days and watch what happens. Mark my word, you will see monumental changes in your performance.

George: You just got 90 hours that you’re working on yourself, and if you weren’t working on yourself, that’s gonna make a hell of a difference. If you are doing some self work, you’re just really going to amplify it with 90 extra hours.

Larry: Yeah, see, this is the aspect of the grit grind and just, you know, the fast-paced world of sales. There’s something to it, but listen, that just fricking leads to burnout, and I’ve been there. I’ve literally been there. I just found out a long time ago when my brain works the best. I optimized that. I’ve maximized all that amounts of time, and that’s customer facing time and new meeting time. All the other stuff I do on my downtime, or I carve out parts in the evening or on the weekend, and I’m just here to tell everyone is this, and sorry to burst the bubble on this one, is sales isn’t nine to five or eight to five. It’s not.

George: No, I agree with you, a million percent. We’re just actually having that conversation with some young sellers the other day. They’re like, whoa, I’m on all the time. I’m like, yeah, and you’re over target, because you’re dealing with a customer when they need to be dealt with. Good, I want to move to workplace culture and coaching, and do you find that sometimes people are spending too much time coaching in a business relationship that isn’t compatible? Like they’re not compatible on this?

Larry: Are you talking about this, peel this back just a little, are you talking about this and looking at this through the lens of a salesperson in the environment they’re in? Or are you looking at this through a different set of lens? Walk me through that real quick.

George: Well, the question I’m asking is, I’m wondering where coaching elements are being deployed. When you are in, working with a team, and you start to look at that coaching, and you’re like, are you really coaching in the right spot? I’ve found that some people are coaching in the wrong spots.

Larry: Well, so here’s the first thing I would challenge is how much coaching is really going on. That would be the first thing. Now, I’m gonna look, and this is why I say this, I’m gonna look back. I spent 28 1/2 years in one channel. I sold copiers my whole entire life in the LA marketplace, and I look at some of the teams I was on, highly dysfunctional, dysfunctional management, spotty training, and so forth. The only time we really got trained is on the launch of new products, and it was always at the midway point or the start of a new year. Here’s what I’ll submit, is I believe there’s not enough coaching. There’s not enough managers or leaders that are willing to do consistent, disciplined amounts of coaching delivered consistently over time. And sometimes that coaching could be lifestyle coaching, it could be sales coaching, it could be client coaching. To me, there’s just not enough of it, and leadership’s creating these environments that sometimes make it difficult for sales people to really blossom in, and that’s why I’m a big, I’m just a massive believer that leaders who lead and coach from the heart soon develop salespeople that go out and sell and lead from the heart. It’s the culture that they want, I’m a firm believer leaders have full control over this. It’s what kind of culture are they creating? Are they creating a coaching culture, or are they creating a numbers culture?

George: The reason why I ask the question is I’ve recently been on some deployments with some of our customers, shall go nameless. Usually, what happens when we get deep is we start working with the sales leadership and we start identifying what sort of coaching methodologies do you have in place? And, you know, they tell us what they have, but what I’m finding is there’s no consistency to it. I’m finding, so, basically what you just covered, but yet here we are in 2022 with all sorts of data, metrics, information, we’ve got all sorts of ways to learn and everything else, but yet we still find organizations that are not achieving their goals and don’t really have a culture of success that they’ve created. So what I hear you saying is, first, we gotta take a good, hard look at coaching, and then we have to coach from the heart, because there’s a hell of a lot more than just product knowledge in that coaching. It’s actually the building out a well-rounded sales culture.

Larry: Here’s what’s interesting, and I’ve been in some deep conversations about what you’re just saying. There’s one avenue that just doesn’t get hit, whether that be from a training level, or from a coaching level, doesn’t matter. Let’s just say a blending of both. Here’s what I hear often that happens, George, and this is straight across the board. I don’t care if this is in sales enablement, this is in sales management, and sales leadership. It doesn’t matter, I’m hearing the same thing. The area that oftentimes goes un-coached in most organizations is people skills and relationship-building skills. And here’s why I say this, and this is what I would encourage and I would challenge any sales leader who’s listening to this, any sales manager who’s listening to this, or if there are salespeople listening to it, there are a couple of age-old sayings we use, and they’ve been used forever and a day, and they’re gonna be used long after we’re off this planet. Here’s two of them: People buy from people. How many times have we heard that one before, right? Here’s another one that we hear all the time: People buy from people they know, like, and trust. Those are the two ones that we hear all the time. They’re gonna be used five years from now. They’re gonna be used 10 years from now. They’re gonna be used 50 years from now. Here’s my question. If we all buy into that, then, as a leader, how are you coaching your salespeople on people skills and relationship-building skills if you’re using those quotes? I’ll submit to you, that’s where you guys can become better at in creating a coaching culture, is around that. Because if I ask sales leaders, if I ask salespeople, George, on a scale of one to 10, walk me through the relationships that you have with your clients right now, very few are gonna say, well, I think it’s a one or a two. Most of the time, they’re gonna say it’s like seven and upwards. Well, what constitutes that? Tell me what you know? Why did you give it that number? And you usually start hearing crickets, which leads me to believe that’s the coaching opportunity that’s sitting inside most organizations that goes untapped. I promise you this, that’s the missing leg, if you’re a leader, that you can create an amazing culture around developing the people and the relational skill sets of your salespeople.

George: Well, Larry, you hit the nail right on the head, and I see this time and time again. I’ve got a line and I want to test this on you, but I’ve used this for a long time in business. I believe there are no bad staff, there are just bad managers. If you are the coach and you have extreme ownership of your team, you’re going to either coach those individuals to become better, or you’re going to remove them and insert people, like if it’s your team and you have extreme ownership, so that’s my point. The team goes where the coach goes. Now, the mistake that we make, I see organizations where I’m like, how’s that person the manager? Oh, well, they were the top sales rep, so they kind of earned it, because they’ve been here, and I’m hearing from ownership and CEOs saying the worst person to promote is the top salesperson. I’m like, it all depends. It all depends upon whether that individual is able to lead and wants to coach and wants to take on the responsibility because there are all sorts of top sales reps that are amazing coaches, as many as there are all sorts of top sales reps that are shitty coaches. So how do you determine whether that individual is going to be able to move to that next level?

Larry: Two things, it goes back to what I was just saying. I believe it’s this, right? It’s how well can they build relationships and how people-oriented are they? And here’s why I say this, is I look back on my career, ’cause I walked through it, George. I was the top salesperson in my company and then I bought into it, so I became a business partner. And then, about five years into this, we expanded in the LA marketplace and I got tasked with running that branch and becoming a manager. I went from being the top salesperson to running a branch and having to manage people. I will tell you this, it was the worst experience I ever went through. And what it boiled down to is I, great at building relationships, but what I sucked at, at that time, was the people skills part of this. I didn’t know how to deal with people. I would just say, hey, you know what? You’re an adult. You should be doing this stuff already. I’d build great relationships with them, but I didn’t have the people skills part of this. And I think, and that’s why I just, I bowed out of this. I said, hey, I’m not cut out for this. But you’re right, there are some salespeople that are top performers that make great leaders, but I think the underlying point about all this is I bet you they got great people skills and they got great relationship building skills and they can blend it all together.

George: Oh, 100%. So what about this adage of can you be a coach of a sales team if you can’t sell?

Larry: Oh. I would say you’re gonna have a hard time getting buy-in from your salespeople. I literally see it right now with the sales teams I work with. I look at this through the lens of a practitioner, and I’m gonna flip the script on you on that one because I want to look at this through the lens of a salesperson. I’d be sitting inside my sales team and sitting in training rooms having to listen to somebody, and we’re all passing notes or dropping texts going I wonder if this person’s ever sold anything before?

George: I know.

Larry: Let’s just face it, we’ve all been there. It’s the question that runs through every salesperson’s head. I will look people dead in the eye, George, I mean dead in the eye, and I’ll say, hey, listen, I’m not gonna ask you to do anything that I am not doing myself right now. The things that I coach you on, the things that I share, the action items that I ask you to do, everything that we’re gonna do together, I am doing right now. I’m not afraid to do any of it. That’s my challenge to most managers. Go make more calls. Show me what a great call looks like. When’s the last time you made a prospecting call? When’s the last time you had ongoing face-to-face interaction or face-to-virtual interaction with our clients? And that’s the biggest disconnect with salespeople.

George: Larry, one of the things that I was actually just speaking to a sales manager about when we would grab our sales rep, we’d get in a car, and we’d have them take us to some customers. And then we would walk in, completely take over the sales call, discount the product down to the floor, ’cause we could do that as a sales manager, and get back in the car and say, “that’s how you do it.”

Larry: Right, I mean, come on. That’s just ego-driven and they just want to be the hero.

George: But what I find is, when I’m on a virtual call and I’m watching coaches, doing film review, and I’m watching, now the coach doesn’t do anything. They don’t get involved, they don’t talk to the customer, and they don’t ask discovery questions. You know, they’re even more, are you seeing that in your interactions as well?

Larry: Absolutely. Here’s where I think that sales managers or leaders can flip this. I’m just, I love the interaction goes like this, right? And I’ll just use you, George, as an example, is what prevents sales leaders or sales managers to sit down, and let’s just say it’s between you and I, right? Hey, George, I saw you went on three customer-facing appointments over the last couple of days. Can you please share with me two great conversations you had in those meetings? What did they look like? What did you accomplish, right? What are the next steps? Walk me through what’s one thing you feel that you could have improved upon. What’s one thing that just stood out? What’s the aha moment in those conversations? Walk me through it.

George: Yeah, I gotta make sure that I do really good follow up, because we had some really engaging conversations, Larry, and the thing I like is they’re really starting to understand what our platform might be able to offer, but there are other stakeholders that I determined in that meeting that I’m gonna have to spend more time with. So I’ve gotta be really careful, ’cause, you know, sometimes you’ve talked to me about my follow-up, so I gotta make sure that I follow up with those key stakeholders. ‘Cause, there’s a team that’s making the decision with that one customer.

Larry: What you just said is just pure gold, because this is where a lot of salespeople struggle with, is I’m a big believer if you want to build trust and if you want to build credibility amongst the buying team, you gotta know who each and every one of those people are right up front, but to me, if you want to do that, it’s about building authentic relationships with each and every one of them and bringing meaningful value to the business table with each and every one of them. I’ll give you a classic example, when I was in the copier channel. Let’s just say my first meeting was with a IT manager, VP of IT, CIO, doesn’t matter. You know, insert title around technology. I’d have that initial, say, 10 to 15 minute meeting, and if we mutually agreed that there was a next step, that next step was everybody who was involved in the buying decision and influence had to sit around the table and have a discussion around what’s important to them, what are their initiatives, and so forth. And then, from there, if we gained agreement that there was a next step, everyone was on the table. I mean, everything was out on the business table. I knew who the players were, I knew who the influencers were. I could start to build relationships behind the scenes with each one of them and I could start bringing value to them. And I think here’s the missing link with a lot of sales leaders and sales managers on how they’re helping their sales people build trust and credibility with their clients. I’ll explain it just a little bit deeper when it comes authentic relationships and meaningful value. I’m telling you this right now, sales people and sales leaders can nail this, it’s a fricking home run, is there’s a lot of sales people out there that can build really good, genuine, authentic relationships. I know there are, but here’s what they might struggle with, bringing meaningful value to the conversations and to the table. When that happens, you have a lot of friends and a lot of pissed-off sales managers, right? Now, here’s the flip side to this, and these are coaching opportunities and conversations that managers and leaders can have right now. Let’s just say that you have salespeople that are smart, they’re intelligent. They can bring insight, they could bring information, and they could bring value to the business table, but they struggle to build relationships ’cause they may be lacking on people skills. They’re gonna have anemic sales funnels and pissed-off sales managers.

George: You know, you said something there that I really want to help our listeners to understand. I think I know where you’re going with it, but we were talking about bringing meaningful value, and I think that depends upon the organization and what you’re doing. But as a coach, if you cannot determine four or five items where you’re coaching your reps on bringing meaningful value, you gotta really dig into that. Like, I agree with you 100%, but I think it’s also giving them some examples, ’cause I find when I talk to reps, going, you need to add more value. I think we need to go way deeper than that and say, by doing this and this, like it’s very mandated in the beginning, but once they start to understand what you’re referring to, you see where I’m going with that?

Larry: Totally, and it goes back, it goes back to the age-old saying, value is in the eye of the beholder. Here’s where I’m going to encourage people, I’m telling you, ’cause I did this, but this is where you gotta set your ego aside. I’m here to tell you this, if you want to get a crash course, or PhD-level education, go right back to your current customers. I’ll drill in because this is how you, this is literally how you bring meaningful value back to conversations. Hey, George, I really appreciate the opportunity you’ve given me to serve your company over the last two years. It really meant a lot to me. I’m super grateful for our relationship. In looking over the last 90 days and looking out over the last six months, what are three things that I’ve done to help you do better business? That’d be one question, I would challenge everyone who’s listening to go back and ask their customers this, is, hey, over the next 90 days, what are three things you need to remove off your business plate right now, George? Stop and listen, take a notepad, write them down, and go ask five of your customers that. Now you have 15 things your current customers are working on. Now, here’s where you flip this. You got 15 things right there. I’ll use it in a sales context for a moment. Hey, George, over the last 90 days, I’ve been working with VPs of sales in my current client base. I’ve been helping them with these three things, how to increase client retention, how to grow net new business, and how to engage in better executive-level conversations. Hey, I’m just curious, out of those three, which one hits home the most?

George: Oh, it’s absolutely brilliant. So the feedback from your current customers makes you more relatable to the new customers, plus you got 15 problems that you’ve heard from a customer base that you could start to seed into the conversations of those new clients, and they’re like, Larry is a frickin’ genius. He understands all of my problems.

Larry: And I mean, not only that, it could be something as simple as, hey, George, I was just reading an article in CFO Magazine recently. Made me think of you and our upcoming conversation, right? You know, the title of the article was three ways, dot dot dot. What struck me about that article is this, hey, and working with CFOs and working with IT managers, here are the issues and challenges that we’ve been helping them overcome. Over the last six months, here are three things that I’ve done to help my customers achieve better business outcomes.

George: Now, Larry, it’s absolutely brilliant. You’ve given me a whole bunch of great subject lines for email outreach, for coaching sessions. You know, I’m blown away, and I knew I would be because your book, “Selling From the Heart” is really a deep dive into all of these concepts that you’ve been speaking about, plus you have your podcast. So what I’d love to lead into right now is where can people get more Larry, if they’ve loved this episode as much as I have?

Larry: No, I appreciate it. You can go to sellingfromtheheart.net. You can find out everything that we’re up to on sellingfromtheheart.net. You can find the podcast, you can find blogs, and you can find information for sales leaders and sales professionals. If you want free resources automatically text to you, you can text the word HEART, H-E-A-R-T to 21000, so you could just text the word HEART to 21000. You can get all, we’ll just immediately send you free resources. We get really cool guests that come on our podcast, and if you want up-to-date information sent to you every single day and a daily dose of inspiration, you can go to sellingfromtheheart.net/dailydose.

George: Larry, we really appreciate you joining us on the show today. I’m sure you and I could have went on for hours and hours and hours.

Larry: Oh. There’s always another time. It’s my pleasure.

George: -Oh, absolutely. Thanks for joining us, and Larry Levine, “Selling From the Heart”, here on “Conquer Local”.


George: I think that we’re all a little bit better having listened to Larry’s takeaways from his version of selling with the heart, and you can see that he’s very passionate about it. He talks about how we’re too often chasing a number in sales. Chase the inner part of who you are is Larry’s suggestion, and I can tell you from personal experience, when I started focusing on myself and getting better at my craft, I actually was better at serving the customers that I was trying to work with. Larry touched on professional sports and the underlying theme of taking care of themselves as athletes, both physically and mentally. As you listen to this, wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, think when was the last time you really thought about who you are and what your purpose is? It doesn’t have to be that deep, but when was the last time you took a second to debrief and focus on yourself? Not about the job, the company, the pets, your vehicle, the news, the social, your emails. Larry challenges us to wake up an hour earlier every morning and focus on yourself. No emails, no news, just you, and maybe some habits or some exercises to get your brain focused, and then to turn to your goals, take a deep breath. Opposed to constantly executing, that’ll absolutely lead to burnout. And this leads into the topic brilliantly outlined by one of our previous guests, Paul Epstein. He talks about purpose, taking time out of your day to find purpose and realign. There’s a theme here from these guests, these experts. Larry also challenges us to remember that people buy from people and people buy from people they know, like, and trust. As a leader, how are you going to coach your salespeople on the people skills, as opposed to the sales skills of pipeline management, product knowledge, following through, those items. What about connecting with the people that you’re trying to do business with? Please subscribe and leave us a review, and thanks for joining us this week on the Conquer Local podcast. My name is George Leith. I’ll see you when I see you.