In its simplest form, Product-Led Growth leans on product experience in order to grow a customer base.
In the traditional acquisition model, marketers focus on attracting potential customers through inbound tactics like paid ads. Once a prospect shows interest and are vetted as a qualified lead, they become a market qualified lead and are sent to the salespeople. Product-Led Growth (PLG) is a strategy that puts the product right before the customer to lead the customer experience! Anna Tavares, Director of Strategy at Vendasta, explains how PLG is defined, and the reason you should be implementing into your business strategy. The concept of PLG is not new. You probably already know and use it all the time. Synonyms for PLG include ‘freemium’, ‘try-before-you-buy’, ‘SaaS 2.0’ and ‘free trial’. Anna explains even more on this episode of the Conquer Local Podcast.
As Vendasta’s Director of Strategy, Anna is responsible for developing, managing, and assisting the implementation of projects that support Vendasta’s vision, as well as its short and long-term growth plans. She is responsible for initiatives that drive partner engagement and growth through product-led growth strategies, while at the same time fostering a culture of cross-functional team collaboration. Besides being a strategy nerd, Anna is passionate about female empowerment, gender equality and new yoga moves.
George: It’s another edition of the Conquer Local Podcast. And we wanted to come up with a special edition for what we are facing today. COVID-19, record low oil prices and an economy that is really in a shutdown and we lamented over what this content might look like. And we know that there’s a thing that we’ve been dealing with from a sales standpoint where we just can’t go see customers at this point in time and how would we enable our cloud brokers to be able to help their clients, help those SMBs that they deal with during this time and do it in a remote way and do it in a way where we’re using technology? Our guest is Anna Tavares, the Director of Strategy for our small cloud broker division at Vendasta, and Anna’s mission over the last year and a half has been to lead the product-led growth initiative. At first, it started inside Vendasta in a beta test environment and after we proved that it was something that was amazing, we then started to roll it out for our cloud brokers to deliver to their SMBs. And after long meetings with our executive, our marketing teams and our product teams, we decided that if we were going to talk about how to help businesses in this time, product-led growth was the way to do that because it enables a cloud broker, the ability to give a set of tools and those tools have the ability to help a business in this time. Anna is going to explain to us where product-led growth came from, how it was born, how it incubated and became a thing that was very successful in its beta test and then what it looks like after it’s rolled out into our cloud broker universe, and how you may be able to use it to communicate with your customer base in this time, where face-to-face meetings and networking events and conferences have all ground to a halt. Local business and being the single source of truth for local business is the mission of Vendasta Technologies. We are very invested in making sure that local businesses can be successful from the very days when Brandon and those five founders started the company. We don’t talk a lot about Vendasta in the Conquer Local Podcast, that’s gonna change in this episode, because this episode is designed to explain to you what product-led growth is and then give you the ability, if you’re an existing cloud broker, to reach out to our partner development team and the partner development manager that you have, to explain how you might be able to use this program in this time and we have some special offers to existing partners on how they would be able to use product-led growth to help communicate with their customer base and offer value to them as we go through this event. So maybe I’m apologizing or maybe I’m just warning you, if you’re used to listening to the podcast, we won’t talk a lot about Vendasta because it’s more about conquering local, and it’s about you and it’s about helping salespeople. But today, we’ve got a bigger goal and that is to help those local businesses that power the economy of all the communities that we live in and not just the local businesses, think about the employees that get that paycheck. I was reading yesterday, when you think about it, we live in a consumer-based society where we go out and we spend money and we consume things and that money that we spend to consume things, then goes to pay employees that turn around and take those paychecks and they consume things and that’s the thing that we should all be concerned about at this time, is that, that consumption economy is slowing down for a period of time. Now, that’s probably not going to happen forever. On the date that we’re recording this podcast, I was listening to BBC the morning before and their reporter that released the news story from Wuhan, China was on, talking about the day that they discovered the first two deaths to COVID-19 and it was two months to the day. And now the economy in China is starting to turn around, people are starting to go out again, they’re starting to shop, and they’re starting to do the things that they’ve not been able to do for a period of time. So it’s a two-month window in China but keep in mind those first, that first month, month and a half, they didn’t know to quarantine people and they didn’t really know how bad it was going to be. So nobody really knows at this point what the gestation period of all this is going to be. So in the meantime, I think we’re listening to more podcasts; I think we’re reading more blogs; I think we’re doing whatever we can to learn and to try and keep our mind off of maybe negative thoughts and to turn this into a positive. We hope that this episode will help you with that as we learn about product-led growth and how it might help our customers and how it might help us as we walk through this challenging time. Anna Tavares, our guest in the Conquer Local Podcast, coming up next.
George: Here she is, Anna Tavares, Director of Strategy for the small cloud broker division at Vendasta Technologies. And we’ve asked Anna to join us this week on the Conquer Local Podcast because we’re gonna dig into this thing called product-led growth. And lots of technology companies are talking about product-led growth, and in fact, I would challenge you as our listeners that you’ve already done this. You’ve already consumed some sort of a product in a freemium or a trial, and then you’ve moved on to make a purchase based upon the experience of that product. So what we’re hoping with Anna, is to really understand the strategy behind this phenomenon of product-led growth and where did it come from? Where could it go? And what’s it doing today to help businesses? So Anna, welcome to the Conquer Local Podcast.
Anna: Thanks, George, so nice to be here today.
Strategy Nerds Unite: The Ins and Outs of PLG
George: Well, we’re going to, it says in the notes that Colleen left me that you’re a strategy nerd. So I’m smart enough to know that you’re way smarter than me, so teach an old sales dog some new tricks today. I’d love to learn the what and why behind product-led growth. The first time I heard it was about a year and a half ago, so would you help educate us a little bit about what it is?
Anna: Yes. So yeah, so it’s a term that is fairly recent and fairly new, and it’s buzzing in the technology industry and software as a service but kinda, as you said that like many companies have been doing this and we’ve as customers have experienced this for a long time now. You mentioned kind of like the freemium model or try-before-you-buy or bottom-up sales or offering your customers a free trial, all of that is related to this strategy called the product-led growth. So to dive in, it is a term that was kind of created by a company called OpenView and all that is, all product-led growth is, is when the product leads the experience. It’s a methodology in which you acquire users, you expand your market and you convert users and retain those, all of that is driven by the product itself. So it’s all about winning customers by delivering value through your product and then asking them to make a purchase. So maybe I’ll go and talk a little bit about like the traditional acquisition model and how it differs from product-led growth, does that sound okay?
George: Sure, that’d be great. I wanna get something out on the table though first because I was listening to what you were saying and it’s a product but it doesn’t mean that it’s not a bundle of products and it also doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be some services that are around some products, so it’s not just one thing we’re talking about here. It could be, it could be one thing but it also could be a bundle or a service layer as well, where you’re experiencing what eventually will be the journey where you end up buying at some point, but you’re getting some level of experience with the product before the transaction.
Anna: Exactly, yeah, so the whole idea, the term of product is just, it’s a product-led as opposed to a sales-led or marketing-led, but by no means, we’re talking about one specific product. As you said, it’s kind of like a taste of your full offering. That offering might be just one product or a bundle of products or a product matched with a service but that’s just the way that the term that we use, as opposed to being a sales-led or a marketing-led journey.
George: I heard something else that you said and that was the user finds value before the transaction. And I’m putting a couple of words in your mouth there because you didn’t talk about the transaction portion but I think that was what I was understanding. And is it the buyer? Is it the user? Are they the same thing? Or sometimes maybe the user is using before there ever is a purchase and maybe that could be a different persona, am I reading too much into this?
Anna: No, no, that makes sense. Slack was one of the first companies that kinda did that and took that product-led approach and that was quite a few years ago. And as you said, like Slack starts with users that are probably within the business, they might not be the main decision-maker, the ones that are going to actually sign the check and decide to use Slack for the whole company but the users are actually the teammates that are like using Slack for internal communications and that’s where the kinda journey and the experience starts and that kinda evolves to then the decision-maker at some point on that conversion point and for them to become a buyer. But those two might be very different personas depending on the size of the business that you’re dealing with.
George: Well, it’s interesting to use that as an analogy. I’m glad you did because I have some insight in that a couple of our guests on the Conquer Local Podcast in Season One, actually were part of the firm that built the comp model for the enterprise sales motion of Slack. And what they told us was that the users that were signing up to Slack in an organization for the free model, were finding value and then walking into the buyers’ offices, the people in IT or maybe at the CTO’s office or the CFO’s office and saying, “This amazing tool is changing my life, we need to get it for our organization.” And then the sales motion happened at that enterprise level. That is a great analogy of how this works because I think it’s important for our audience to understand that the usage of whatever the tool or service is, could lead to a transaction down the road with a different persona but you actually have that advocate inside the organization saying, “This thing’s amazing, we need to have that.” It’s like a secret weapon for you as a sales organization.
Anna: Exactly and that person, that user, that advocate that you get inside the organization has actually experienced your product, they haven’t, it’s not just like they’ve downloaded a white paper or they’ve filled out a form and now they are just requesting for more information. No, they’ve used it, they’ve seen value and sometimes they even have metrics to show that like, product A or offering B actually delivered some results to our organization. And then that ask, that conversion becomes a lot easier than if it was like a sales-led approach.
PLG Leads to a New Conversion Point for Your Products
George: You were talking about how this has changed that conversion point. And by conversion, we mean where the user or soon-to-be customer becomes a paying user of whatever the solution or the product is. Can you explain that a little bit more about how that is a transition from the former model?
Anna: Absolutely, yeah. So in the traditional kind of acquisition model, you might have your website that talks about your offering and then you have visitors that will come into the website and as I said, they might fill out a form asking for more information or download some of your content or collateral or white paper. And then at that point, in the traditional model, they become a marketing qualified lead. After that marketing or dimension might pass that lead on to your sales team, and the sales team might look at that lead and say, “Yep, they seem like they’re qualified,” and they become a sales qualified lead. Then your sales team will go out there, talk to them, maybe pay them a couple of visits, and ask and then pitch your product or your offering and then ask for that sale and then that’s the traditional kind of conversion point. Like that customer went from being a marketing qualified lead to a sales qualified lead to them becoming a customer, that’s the traditional model. With a product…
George: I just wanna give our listeners a bit of a heads up that we’re gonna have the links inside the follow up to what this graphic actually looks like. So this will be graphic number one that Anna is showing you is the traditional model. And then we’re going to have graphic number two. And now, here is Anna’s take on what you’re seeing inside graphic number two as you’re listening along.
Anna: Exactly and just one thing on that graph number one, the product experience will only begin post-conversion. So when you look at that graph, you’ll see a clear line in the middle that separates that conversion point and then from then on, you’re giving that customer your login for whatever platform or whatever service product you’re offering and saying, “Hey, now that you’ve bought something from me, here’s your login and here, now you can start experiencing this product.” So that was it, that was for the traditional acquisition model. So now on to graph number two. Again, pretty similar beginning of your customer journey, you might still have your website with your content, you might still have some forms but within that website, your user can kinda embark and start experiencing your product. Most likely, they’ll be able to self sign up to get a taste of your product or your offering and now you have your user not become a marketing qualified lead or a sales qualified lead but now they’ll become a product qualified lead in the SaaS and the technology realm, we call that a PQL. And then from then on, your sales team will watch how that customer interacts with your product or with your service and then they’ll get in touch and ask for that sale and ask for that conversion point. So your sales team is a lot more informed when they reach out to that customer. So for example, if you’re selling a social media product, they might reach out and say, “Hey, I’ve noticed that you gave our product a try, and you created a couple of posts. Is there anything I could help you with?” So the sales role becomes a lot more like customer assistance before they even ask for the sale as opposed to a purely kind of sales approach.
George: So one question that I’d like to ask. We’ve talked about marketing qualified leads, we’ve talked about sales qualified leads, now we’ve introduced this new qualified lead of product qualified lead. For our audience of salespeople and sales leaders, which one do you think is better for them, Anna?
Anna: I really don’t think there’s a better or worse George, what we’ve been seeing and we at Vendasta have been doing this ourselves and have adopted ourselves is this strategy as a company and what we’ve been seeing is, it’s a dual approach. You still have people that will always want to talk to a salesperson and will want that hand-holding and will want to have someone talk them through the process, for one reason or another. And then you have people that are most likely your millennials maybe, will want to just give things a try, like they actually don’t want to pick up the phone, they don’t wanna talk to anyone directly, they just want a login and they want to give your product or your service a try. So it’s not a matter of one being better or worse. I think it’s just having your sales team and your internal teams prepared to support both and to work with both, they’re both equally valuable leads in the sales process.
The Tough Journey to PLG Promises Rewards
George: So in the early, and you’d mentioned that we as an organization have been using this for quite some time now. And we rolled it out to our various cloud brokers over the last six months or so, let’s talk a little bit about what the early wins have been. Maybe we’ll talk about our early wins, Vendasta’s early wins because we’ve been doing it longer and then I’d like to understand if this is translating to an SMB sale as well.
Anna: Absolutely. So yes, Vendasta did this, I think it’s been almost two years now that we’ve introduced a free tier of our subscriptions. And it was crazy, like we saw our cost to acquire customer get cut in half and the payback time also decreased quite a bit as well and we measure the ratio between our leads and people that become a paid customer or get a paid subscription with Vendasta and that ratio from lead to paid subscription, almost more than doubled within kind of our metrics and our numbers.
George: So the conversion rate went up and it was a dramatic increase in conversion by allowing them to interact with the product or service. So we’re using us as the analog here. But they were having interaction and there was measurement of that interaction. I do wanna say that this wasn’t easy and it was a hard problem to solve. So product-led growth, the ability to offer this to a wide range of prospects, and make sure that they’re able to get to it, they’re reminded to get to it, they can find the value, what does that user experience look like? How are we translating that back to the sales organization so that we can eventually get that conversion? None of this was easy. I want you to talk about how hard it was because it was your teams that were figuring it out. Because I think for our listeners, they need to understand that this isn’t a quick win. It actually is a system that needs a lot of iteration because it’s hard to do.
Anna: Yes, it was definitely a process for us. It’s getting your sales teams kinda used to following both approaches. And one thing that we felt that was a step that was really important for our sales teams was that when we actually made the stats and the usage of the users in the platform available to them, so one thing is to ask your salespeople to follow up with the users that are in your platform or using your product. The other thing is actually giving them the intel to be able to do it. So when we’re asking them to reach out to customers, actually having them have an informed approach. So that was one of the things that was a game-changer for us when we actually gave this information to our sales teams.
George: And I think that it’s important to note that from the sales side because I was very involved in that side of the organization, understanding where the user was and what they were doing led to that and you said earlier, which I think is a very good point, led to that sales experience where it was more around, “Well, we noticed that you were doing X, Y and Z, and you found success there, did that meet the goal that you had when you signed up in the first place?” That’s a whole different conversation than, well, let me give you the feature benefits of what this thing might be. You already know where they have interacted and you’re able to now use that as the starting point because you know the user was there, and they were doing these things and that’s why having this connected experience is so important to making product-led growth work.
Anna: Exactly, yeah. We saw that for our sales teams was a big, big change. Now they can have focused conversations, like talking about a specific problem that, that customer might have, and how we might solve that problem.
George: Was there a constant set of eyes on these various users? How you watch those users to see what their interaction was, and that was those iterations to get this thing right so that the engine was working and by an engine, I mean, so that the user was finding the value from the solution.
George: That’s a really important piece, isn’t it?
Anna: Yes, yes, we definitely had a set of eyes, quite a few, looking at this data and looking at this information from the beginning. And what we did is, before we automated or before we decided, which leads or which customers were the most valuable, we were just looking at what everyone was doing within the platform and kind of talking to our sales teams and saying, “Hey, what are the kinds of leads that, you’re on the phone, you’re talking to them day-to-day, what are the kinds of leads that you think are the most valuable?” And then all of a sudden, they started giving us that information back. “Oh, I really like talking to someone that has entered their credit card number. That shows that they’re more ready and more likely to buy.” So then, when we started automating these leads, and kind of what leads are surfaced to our sales teams, we took that into account and it’s been working well so far.
The SMB Experience Evolved
George: Well, we really appreciate your team’s work as you watched what this process, and how it was impacting the type of conversion that was occurring and what we found from the sales side, and we talked to the sales organization, they were like, “Wow! Not only are they, they’re more engaged leads, but they also know what they’re doing. And we were able to get them to value on the next pieces of our stack easier because they had been experiencing the solution.” And when we talk about eyeballs, you had eyeballs, technology, you were constantly watching the stats, you were measuring every little nuance of this, to figure it out and making little tweaks so that there was that experience. Let’s talk about now, what that means when we communicate with a SMB using this thing, this incredible tool if what you’re saying is true, it sounds pretty good, called product-led growth. How does this now translate to the SMB experience?
Anna: Yeah, exactly. So we did that for us first at Vendasta and kinda tested it on ourselves and saw that it was working really well, and kinda decided to give our partners and our customers that strategy as well. So what we did is we have our kinda set of our owned-and-operated products or the products that Vendasta has created over the years. So what we did is, why don’t we give our partners the ability to offer SMBs free versions of these products. And those free versions are kind of like, we call them express products and they’re limited versions kinda cut back features from the full products that we usually offer. So that way, we enabled our partners to actually take the exact same strategy. So lead with the product, instead of asking for the sale before showing value, and give their customers the ability to try their product before they bought anything. Imagine if you had to, if you wanted to watch your favorite TV show, and you had to go into the Netflix website and fill out a form and get on the phone and talk to someone and give them your credit card over the phone to be able to watch your favorite TV show. Like probably half of us or more than half of us would give up before even getting there.
George: Well, it’s really interesting. I love the analogy that you used, I can add to that analogy. Imagine if you had to get in your vehicle and drive across town and walk into a store and then pick out a movie and then the movie that you wanted to see wasn’t there but now you just go to Netflix and watch them all for seven bucks a month, see that? I was just throwing that out there ’cause I’m old. I’m really happy that Captain Marvel crashed into a blockbuster store in that movie, if you haven’t seen it, it’s pretty cool.
Anna: I haven’t seen it yet.
George: Well, you know, when you say it like that it makes sense to me. I’m listening to this and I’m like, “Oh, this actually just makes sense.” We’re going to send out this thing, it’s great and people love when they pay for it. We’re gonna give them a scaled-back version, at an express level that has an upsell path in it, they find value from it, which is good for our organization and then we get this increased conversion. I’m assuming that you’re gonna tell us that there was an increased conversion from these product-led users.
Anna: Yes, yeah, absolutely. We’ve had it in market for, since November last year, so for a few months right now, and the usual conversion with our snapshot report, it was about a 3% conversion rate. And with these express products, we’ve been seeing a conversion rate at about 10%. So for customers that log into business app and see and experience these products, about 10% or so, one out of 10 convert to the pro product, so yeah, really good conversion rates.
George: And is that conversion happening sales assisted or is it happening without a salesperson involved at all?
Anna: It’s a mix, we see some partners are having that sales assisted process. So within our platform, we also in Sales and Success Center, we provide to partners that intel, that same, so when I was talking about our experience at Vendasta saying that it was really important to provide to the sales teams, what partners were doing within the platform, we did the exact same thing for our partners. So we’ve been seeing both cases, we’ve been seeing conversions happen, just without any sales assistance, but we also have been seeing partners that have their sales team ready to pick up the phone and say, “Hey, I’ve noticed that you tried our social marketing product, is there anything I can help you with?” And then they guide them through the process, and then might end up selling not just the pro product, sometimes a package or sometimes even like a service attached to that package. So we’ve been seeing partners kind of take it to market in quite a few different ways.
Cloud Brokers and Business Models Change for the Better
George: Well, I think it’s important to talk about product-led growth as a concept and that’s what we’ve been trying to articulate here. Probably a little more discussion around Vendasta, you don’t really hear the V-word in the Conquer Local Podcast that often but there’s a reason for this. And we have been lamenting as an executive and as a leadership group at Vendasta as to how we would help local businesses and how we would help our cloud brokers during this time that we are all experiencing. And one of the reasons we wanted to have Anna on the broadcast this week, is since these events that have been occurring around the economy and around COVID-19 and around the oil price drop, there’s a lot of angst out there and we have people that are basically just at home, not able to go into work but yet things are still continuing. It’s been interesting to watch how people are adapting because I think we actually are quite adaptable as a society, it’s cool to see that happening. We wanted to do this broadcast, to offer our cloud brokers some things that they could do to help. And we are finding that product-led growth is able to offer an enormous amount of help to a business, of course, yes, there’s some sort of an upgrade path that is available as well but that’s not the purpose of this. The purpose of this is to, is there anything we could do during this time through our network of cloud brokers, to the close to three million local businesses that we touch around the planet that would offer some value to help during this time? And we had this thing that was running really well and we were talking about it from a commercial standpoint, but I do wanna say that this is around, can we give our cloud brokers, the listeners to the Conquer Local Podcast, the ability to give something to help their client base? Anna, as you have worked with these cloud brokers, large, small, all over the world, rolling out product-led growth, I’m interested to understand, you have the call where you launch it and you get them rolling and you show them how it’s going to work and then what’s the call like a month later? And I know you’ve been talking to a number of these cloud brokers, what are they saying to you has been the experience that they’re having as an organization, and then that they’re getting from their customers? I think it’s important to tell a few of these stories because it’s pretty amazing.
Anna: Yeah, no, the call usually a month later goes like, “This is amazing.” Like, they’re all so happy to be able to provide value to their customers and just play that role of I am here to help you, I’m here to be your local support but it’s been a tremendous value to both our partners to be able to offer that and for the SMBs, as well.
George: Anna, we really appreciate you joining us on this version of the Conquer Local Podcast. We do lots of podcasts like this, where we’re using Google Hangouts. And I know that you’re working from home right now in this new work from home environment that all of us are living in. You’ve been thinking about some advice that you’d like to give our cloud brokers and how you see this toolset and this concept of product-led growth helping them during this time, so I’d like you to share that with our listeners.
Anna: Yeah, like we’re all experiencing the COVID-19 pandemic and kind of as it ties to product-led growth, like at a time like this, all meetings are canceled unless they’re online meetings like this one or events are canceled, networking events, like there’s nothing like that happening right now. So if you have a sales-led approach solely that is probably at risk right now. But having a product-led approach and a product-led growth approach, self serve is always open, like if you have a way for your customers to experience value within your product online without having to have that face-to-face interaction, that will always be open regardless of pandemic or not. So I would say that this is the perfect time to think about switching your business model and your strategy to be more product-led, than any other time before, I would say, do it right now, it is the best time to do it.
George: Well, technology is on our side, because we can do remote meetings. The other thing that you mentioned that I think it’s important for our audience to understand is there is that marketing automation layer where you’re using email to send value so that they can then interact with the solution, works amazing and then we also have the tools themselves that offer an enormous amount of value for a small business, right now, with the things that they’re dealing with. So I’m glad that you brought that up because you’re absolutely right. There’s never been a better time to use a solution like this that is 100% online in those days that we’re not able to make those sales calls or go to conventions or have networking events. And that’s why we wanted to share this content with you around product-led growth and bring in the master of product-led growth for Vendasta, our Director of Strategy. Anna, thank you very much for joining us on this edition of the Conquer Local Podcast.
Anna: Thank you so much, George. It was a pleasure being part of it.
George: So now, you are an expert on product-led growth. And I think Anna was being, she’s being very humble, ’cause I know that she burnt the midnight oil for the last year and a half, not just her, there’s been five or six teams that have been doing what is called in the software business, growth hacking and they’ve been figuring out how to make this better. Software companies use this term called iterate. And it’s a small word, it’s only seven letters. But when it comes to iteration, it comes with a lot of research and trial and error. And you heard from Anna that there was a lot of trial and error that happened. I was close to this because we were rolling it out inside product and inside marketing and inside sales, and there was a lot of iteration that happened, it’s not easy. None of this product-led growth strategy that has been built was something that was built overnight. It was built over time, blood, sweat and tears, a lot of dollars were invested to make it work but I’m telling you that the businesses that are using this tool, that are cloud brokers trying to communicate with customers to show value, are loving it because it is a much lower cost of acquisition but for the purposes of this episode of the Conquer Local Podcast and the reality that we’re dealing with in the economy today we wanna offer it forward as a way for your sales organization and your marketing organization to have conversations, in a world where we can’t have face-to-face conversations, and where we need to use marketing automation, and we need to use technology to be able to deliver some sort of value, to maybe it’s someone that’s been paying you for four years, and you just wanna help them, imagine that you could use this to be able to do that. Imagine if it was someone that you had talked to that was just on the verge of becoming a customer. And maybe that’s been put on hold, but you can still give them this, which will be able to help them in the meantime. So we wanted to come at this thing where we are a commercial business at the end of the day and we know that you folks that are listening all probably work for commercial businesses or own commercial businesses. Didn’t wanna come at this as this is a commercial conversation. This is a conversation to help the businesses that fuel the economy of our planet and all local businesses are important and I think we now realize that more than ever. So we hope that you found value today from this episode. Our entire staff is at the ready and we’re available to help you during this time. And this is something that has been articulated by our CEO and a number of different communiqués but I wanted to bring it to you as the listeners of the Conquer Local Podcast. We’re gonna do a couple coaching episodes around this as well but I do wanna tell you that our organization is here to help you, if it’s just a matter of answering an email, or answering a chat. And if you would like to look at moving product-led growth into your customer base as something you just wanna give to them, we’re here to help you with that. Talk to your partner development manager, and we’ll come up with something that will work. We wanna be helping you, help your client base, it’s all built into our DNA of being that trusted local expert, what better way than to offer some tools that add value in those businesses’ time of need. Thanks for joining us for this very special edition of the Conquer Local Podcast. My name is George Leith, I’ll see you when I see you.