636: Mastering the Art of Public Speaking | Brenden Kumarasamy

In this episode of the Conquer Local Podcast, we are thrilled to introduce Brenden Kumarasamy, the visionary founder of MasterTalk. With a remarkable passion for empowering individuals through effective communication, Brenden’s journey began when he started coaching public speaking at just 19 years old. Recognizing the lack of accessible resources for those unable to afford coaching, he embarked on a mission to bridge this gap.

Brenden’s dedication led him to create MasterTalk, a transformative YouTube channel providing free, practical communication guidance. His goal is to ensure that everyone, regardless of age or background, becomes an exceptional communicator. Brenden firmly believes that the next visionary can emerge with the right communication skills.

Join us as we explore Brenden Kumarasamy’s inspiring journey, his vision for a more communicative world, and the profound impact he’s making through MasterTalk. Discover his commitment to democratizing communication skills and empowering individuals to confidently share their ideas with the world.

Giveaway: Visit www.rockstarcommunicator.com to attend one of Brenden’s free communication workshops!

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Mastering the Art of Public Speaking

Introduction

Jeff Tomlin: Welcome to the Conquer Local Podcast! Our show features successful sales leaders, marketers, thought leaders and entrepreneurs who will inspire you with their success stories. Each episode is packed with practical strategies, as our guests share their secrets to achieving their dreams. Listen in to learn the highlights of their remarkable accomplishments and get tips to revamp, rework, and reimagine your business. Whether you’re a small business owner, marketer, or aspiring entrepreneur, the Conquer Local Podcast is your ultimate guide to dominating your local market. Tune in now to take your business to the next level! 

I’m Jeff Tomlin and on this episode, we’re pleased to welcome Brenden Kumarasamy. 

Brenden is the founder of MasterTalk, a YouTube channel dedicated to helping people master public speaking and communication. 

He started at 19 years old coaching others on impactful speaking during business competitions and noticed the lack of accessible resources for effective communication. This led him to create MasterTalk, offering free videos to empower individuals who couldn’t afford personal coaching. 

Brenden’s mission is to make every person an exceptional communicator, regardless of age or financial means striving to unlock the potential of individuals and enable them to confidently share their ideas with the world. 

Get ready Conquerors for Brenden Kumarasamy coming up next on this week’s episode of the Conquer Local Podcast.

Brenden Started MasterTalk to Help People Improve Public Speaking

Jeff Tomlin: Brenden Kumarasamy, Montreal native. Welcome to the Conquer Local podcast.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Jeff, the pleasure’s absolutely mine. Thanks for having me on the show.

Jeff Tomlin: Hey, so let’s dive right into it. You’ve got a platform to help people hone their public speaking skills. It’s called MasterTalk. And you got started in this space fairly young. What inspired you to get started and what inspired you to start MasterTalk?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure, Jeff. It’s great to be on the show. Thanks for having me. So yeah, for me, the story started in college, Jeff, since we’re all Canadian here, I studied at Concordia University in Montreal in accounting funny enough, I thought I was a numbers guy and that I was going to be crunching numbers the rest of my life. And my dream when I was a 19-year-old kid, Jeff, was to get a job at one of the big four accounting firms. If I could land a job at PricewaterhouseCoopers or Deloitte, at KPMG, my life would be set. So I started this bachelor’s degree, Jeff and I found out about these things called case competitions. Think of it like professional sports but for nerds. So other guys my age were playing basketball or rugby or soccer, probably not a sport I was into. I did presentations competitively and that’s how I learned how to speak fairly early in my career. And then as I got older, I started coaching a bunch of students on how to communicate so that they could win competitions. And I accidentally developed a gift in helping other people and how to speak. So then in 2019, I had the idea of just saying, “Why don’t I just create free videos while I’m working my full-time job at IBM?” And I just started making videos in my basement. And then a few years later, it turned into something I never could have imagined.

Jeff Tomlin: Brenden. So jumping from accounting to public speaking almost feels like going from badminton to professional wrestling. Like I didn’t expect that. So tell me what’s been some of the most rewarding things that you’ve had about your journey so far here?

Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Jeff and I love the analogy, I definitely went from badminton to professional wrestling. It’s very well articulated and well said. I think for me, Jeff, what really lights me up in the morning is that I really believe at the core of who I am, that the work I do is really helping other people. Especially when I got started one of the challenges I saw with the communication space is a lot of the languaging, the wording was really negative. The only thing scarier than death is public speaking or Jerry Seinfeld’s quote, “I’d rather be in the casket than give the eulogy.” It’s just these words that are ingrained in our culture that make us believe as a society that communication should be scary, that it should be something you don’t want to get better at. Whereas in my case going back to accounting, that wasn’t the only struggle. I have a math degree, I have a crooked left arm. I grew up in Montreal since you know very well, Jeff is a city where you need to know how to speak French, which I didn’t know a single word of. So my parents put me in a French school to learn it. And every time I got up in a classroom to give a presentation, I’d be scared out of my wits. So if I could be such a great communicator, my belief is that anyone listening to this podcast can definitely get better at communication too.

Overcoming Fear in Public Speaking: Find Strong Motivation and Practice Effectively

Jeff Tomlin: Well to your point, public speaking is terrifying for a lot of people. So talk to us a little bit about, so what are some of the steps that people can take to start to quell some of the fear of getting in front of people.

Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Jeff there’s two parts to that. One is more of an understanding that we don’t need to have zero fear to do public speaking. Think about everything that we’ve accomplished in our life, whether it was immigrating to a new country, getting a new job, starting a business, going to college, applying for a first job, asking somebody on a date, getting married. Everything that we’ve done in our lives have some fear involved with it. So why do we do it? We do it because the motivation outweighs the fear. Like when I was in college, I was really scared to apply for my first job because I didn’t have any experience. So why did I do it anyway? Because my fear of being broke was significantly higher than my fear of applying for a job. So how do we bring that analogy to communication? And this is where the challenge lies, Jeff, is we don’t really have a good reason as to why we wanna get better at speaking. That’s the core problem. Not that we’re scared of it, but that we don’t have a reason significant enough to actually wanna practice it for a large percentage of us. So now the next step to that becomes, how would my life change if I became an exceptional communicator? Start to really reflect on that question. Beause that will start to open opportunities to how you can see the world better. And then we can get into some tactics and tricks to practice in a way that’s easy.

Jeff Tomlin: I like what you were saying there, Brenden, because I’ve done a fair bit of speaking at conferences and so forth. You never really get rid of the fear, do you? You sort of, learn to deal with it because it is exactly what you’re saying. Yeah, a lot of things in life are scary, I guess I never really thought about, how is the motivation different on the other side of things?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Very well said, Jeff. And then the buildup to that, especially somebody like yourself who’s keynoted a lot, it also becomes easier for two reasons. One, in your case especially, you’re keynoting on the same topics. You’re not gonna go onto a different conference and talk about something completely out of left field of your expertise. So after five or 10, you’re still nervous, but you’re a lot less anxious. And then the other piece, that I’m sure we’ll cover today on the show is, and this is the way I coach my senior level execs and leaders, is how do we architect an experience where we’re practicing what’s harder outside of the boardroom? Because if we do something that’s harder outside of the boardroom, then the boardroom becomes much easier to deal with. And that’s why for me, the easy solution, which is simple but not easy, is to do what’s harder. If you practice the exercises that are difficult then when you go back into keynote situations and boardroom meetings, it’s gonna be really easy for you to navigate those situations.

Practice and Repetition Improve Public Speaking; Conversation over Presentation

Jeff Tomlin: Well, I think a lot of people don’t think about the practice and what goes into being able to give a really good talk from that standpoint. Because I remember early in my career, going to different conferences and whether it was up on stage or whether you’re giving like a lightning talk or you’re part of a small panel or whatever, we always seem to be creating a new presentation or a new thing for every single event. And it dawned on me at some point in my career that like comedians or professional public speakers, they don’t create a new talk for every single event that they’re doing. they’ve got a program that they put together and then they repeat it hundreds of times. Like it takes practice to get good at that stuff, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: You’re absolutely spot on there, Jeff, where you’re right, like what does Kevin Hart do when he is doing a Netflix special? He’ll spend two, or three years bombing on small little stages, small comedy clubs in New York or LA or Florida. He’ll make a ton of mistakes. He’ll try the jokes and he’ll see what’s actually landing and then he’ll take the best jokes, put them all together on one special and he knows he’s going to crush because he has tried out those bits across the country. It’s the same analogy here, where the best communicators, to your point, they’re all presenting the same thing. And that’s why I’ve gotten better at guesting on a podcast. Not because I’m smart, but because I’m doing, I’m being asked the same questions over and over again on the topic of communication. Nobody’s asking what my favourite fruit is on a podcast. So because of that, the quality of those answers, whether it’s me, whether it’s you or anyone else listening, just improves naturally over time.

Jeff Tomlin: So Brenden, what’s your favorite fruit?

Brenden Kumarasamy: It’s a tough debate. It’s between the mango and the watermelon. I’m not sure which one’s better, it’s a close, but if I had to pick probably mango.

Jeff Tomlin: I still delivered the answer. See, there you go. Confidence. But it’s right. I remember so many times, if you get a chance to deliver on a topic a number of times, instead of giving a presentation, now you’re having a conversation. And it’s totally different when you get up in front of people and it feels like you’re having a conversation instead of a presentation because all this stuff is just, it’s natural to you. You’re not trying to remember a talk. Yeah, it makes a huge difference, doesn’t it?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh, absolutely, Jeff, I’m completely with you on that. And then the other piece to that as well is knowing how to practice in a way where it starts to feel like an informal conversation amongst friends. So one of those exercises I teach is called the puzzle method, where in communication when we build a presentation, we should work at it like jigsaw puzzles, those little piece puzzles that we have where we start with the edge pieces first. Because if you work on the corners, they’re a lot easier to find. We should just apply that to communication and presentations where the next time you have a big keynote or a presentation, just work on the introduction 10, or 15 times and you’ll feel a lot more confident when you deliver the beginning of that message.

Technology Offers Convenience but may Erode One-on-One Communication Skills

Jeff Tomlin: Since we’re talking about communication skills and part of it’s public speaking, but communication in general just got me thinking when I was reading some of your bio and thinking about our talk. Are we as a group or people, are we losing our communication skills that we did have? This happens over and over and over again. We’ll meet new people, say we’ll meet the family, we’ll meet their kids. Especially when I’m meeting younger people and they’ve got their heads in their phones or I’ll go and meet some people for the first time their kids are also there, they’ll, “Hey, say hi to Jeff over there” and they won’t pick their head outta their phone. Part of it is just basic manners. But it’s part of like communication and I think communication styles and abilities are part of culture. Do you feel like we’re losing some of it because of all of the different technologies that we’ve got in our faces all the time?

Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure. Jeff, great question. So the way I’ve seen it is, let’s start by understanding why that is. So the first piece is really simple and has everything to do with optionality and convenience. Let me give a simple analogy. 20 years ago, let’s say 30 years ago to be safe, if you wanted to ask somebody on a date, you don’t really have a choice. You have to go in person, you have to ask them directly. There’s no texting, maybe you can get on a phone call with them, but it’s mostly in person. Whereas today if you have the option, hence optionality of choosing between getting rejected in person or just swiping through an app, you’re going to pick the easier option. Not because the generations are different, but because as human beings, when we’re given more convenient options, kind of like Uber Eats or DoorDash versus going out and actually picking up the food we’ll always opt for the more convenient option. Except the difference now with this generation, Jeff, as you can probably guess, is those options are handed to them at the beginning of their life. So naturally they’re going to pick the most convenient option, not because they’re a different generation, but because they’re human beings and that’s what they’ll do. But there’s also a positive to this that a lot of people don’t talk about. And the positive is, yes, they’re not practicing enough and they should, but the benefit is, it’s a lot easier for them to be connected to the whole world and meet people that they otherwise never would’ve met in their life. And that also leads to a lot of magic as well.

Jeff Tomlin: It does lead to magic. But I gotta say, it feels like we’re losing some of the one-on-one magic that happens when people aren’t distracted by all of the other things that they should be doing. I don’t know, maybe, I’m a little bit pessimistic that way, but I hear what you’re saying about optionality and convenience and that it becomes a habit, especially it’s people’s human nature to lean toward things that are convenient and obvious. So you were just talking about Kevin Hart and what someone like him would go through to prepare to give a talk. Talk a little bit about the process of what you can do to sort of test if you’re messaging is, will resonate with an audience.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely, Jeff. So here’s the way I think about this, communication is like juggling 18 balls at the same time. So one of those balls is eye contact. One of those balls is getting the messaging right. One of those balls is storytelling, and one of them is body language. One of them is knowing how to smile and it gets really confusing really fast. So for me, the question has always been, what are the few easiest balls to juggle? So one of those balls that I call is like sending video messages. So I get a lot of senior leaders to send video messages to their team members just to show them some appreciation about saying, “Hey, really appreciate the work that you’re doing for this company.” That’s an easy way to practice. Another one is the question drill, where you’ll pick a question. Here’s what I like to do as well is like, you’ll pull up an interview of someone with the same title as you or two titles above you, and you’ll listen to their interview, you’ll take notes on every question the interview asks them, and then you flip it back and you say, “Hey, if they were asking me those questions, how would I answer them?” So that’s the question drill. It’s really easy to practice. And the random word exercise, you take a word like egg fruit, egg fruit makes no sense. Egg roll or fruit or envelope. And you create random 60-second presentations that help you deal with uncertainty. But to your point about messaging, what it really comes down to, Jeff, is taking a step back and just asking yourself, this simple question to your audience, what is most important to you around X topic and why? And just sit back and listen. And the answers they give you is what you feed into your presentation.

Quick 60-Second Talks and Video Messages Improve Communication Skills

Jeff Tomlin: I like the idea of the quick 60-second talks on a spontaneous type of of topic. Just in the pre-show, we were talking about, how we’ve first started thinking about public speaking and whatnot. And I shared with you when I got out of university, I did Toastmasters for a few years, and one of the things that they did were these sort of quick lightning topics where you would have 30 to 60 seconds, you’d give a topic to somebody on the spur of the moment and they would have to talk about that just off the top of their head, not or off the cuff. And it’s incredibly effective to help people work through eliminating their thinking words and being able to talk fluidly and form thoughts quickly on the go and make it sound like you know what you’re talking about. But you’re thinking, it seems like when you get good at it seems to slow down a little bit and you get to process the information faster. And then the 30, 60 seconds flies by.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Very well said. I completely agree with that, Jeff. And the difference between table topics, which is what you’re referring to in Toastmasters versus the random word exercise is that the random word exercise is easier to practice. So Toastmasters is a great organization, that I highly recommend, I think it’s great, especially for people who can’t afford an executive speech coach like me. I think it’s a great, great, great way to get started. But the thing with table topics is because you have to switch questions all the time when you’re outside of the meetings, you don’t really do it anymore. Whereas with the random word exercise, what I like about it for beginners is you could do this anytime, like a light bulb, home, blanket, or yoga mat. And also what I recommend people do is you can do this on a Friday meeting where it’s low stakes, everyone’s going for the weekend before a meeting starts, have everybody do the random word exercise once or do this with children like a family or kids. And that also gets the kids who have their phones like this all the time out of their shells a little bit more in speaking.

Jeff Tomlin: I like your idea about videoing yourself or sending a video message and testing it that way, not too different from sports if whether you’re golfing or upping here in Canada, you’re curling or you’re doing some type of sport and you, people say, “Curling is that really a thing?” Yeah. But if you videotape yourself, you get all sorts of different insights into your range of motion and what you’re doing. And I would assume that it’s no different from testing your messages and playing back the video and then seeing how the video resonates with other people. I sometimes, I can’t, like sometimes it’s hard for people to watch themselves on video but it’s great practice, isn’t it?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh yeah, absolutely, Jeff, like the video really helps. The only nuance I add to this is you don’t need to force yourself to video right away. Because for a lot of people that can be really intimidating. That’s why for me, the first step is just, “Hey, do the random word exercise a few times, try and get to a hundred or 50, do it like five times a day for three weeks.” And then what starts to happen is your internal confidence starts to go up, it starts to increase. So then the other part of that conversation then becomes, “Okay, how do I get better?” So then with the video message, what I like about the angle of sending it to employees or sending birthday video messages to business partners or clients, that’s what I like to do in my business. What happens is you’re not really focused on the video that you’re sending, you’re more focused on doing a nice thing for somebody. But after you’ve sent a hundred of these video messages, you get really good at these things really fast and you start to see the results yourself.

Video Presentations Require Focused Eye Contact, Energy, and Accessibility

Jeff Tomlin: So let’s talk about video a little bit when you’re giving a presentation. So we do this all the time now. We’re doing podcasts on video, we meet on video and we give presentations now on video. So how is giving, do you think about the video presentations differently than giving a live presentation? Do you practice differently or do you think about different things when you’re trying to master a video talk?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. Jeff, great question. So in terms of in-person versus like a Zoom call that you’re on in a meeting, the practice schedule is pretty similar in terms of the exercises we’re working on. But the main differences lie in three main ideas. The first one is eye contact, where when you’re in person, you’re generally moving your head around to look at the different people in an audience. Whereas when you’re online, whether you’re looking at one or 10,000 people, you actually wanna look directly at the camera lens because it gives the illusion that you’re looking at everyone directly, even if you’re looking at the top of the screen. So that’s one. The second one is energy. Let’s face it Jeff, it’s a lot easier to show up with energy when you’re in person because you actually have to shower, you need to be accountable and you have to give people high fives or hugs. So you show up with a lot more energy. Whereas when you’re online, you could wear pyjamas, no one will know, “Do I need to shower? Do I really need to show?” So because of that, it’s a lot harder for us to project energy. So the advice simply becomes get better in person and bring as much of that energy as possible back online. And then finally, the third main difference is accessibility. Let’s say I’m giving a presentation in Saskatoon and then I go, “Hey, I really want Jeff’s feedback.” But since you’re sitting in the audience, the friction is very little. I just go up to you and I say, “Hey Jeff, what did you think of this presentation? How can I make this better?” And we can get lunch after, but in online presentations, it’s very different ’cause the Zoom call just ends. So I actually need to get on a phone call with you to get the feedback that I need. And those are the main three differences I’ve seen.

Framework for Impactful Video Talks: Objectives, Three to Defend, Vision State Close

Jeff Tomlin: I do like the tip, especially about the energy. I had a colleague here that was a news anchor for many years, and one thing that she imparted on me is anytime you’re giving a talk on video, your energy has to be what might feel over the top. But you have to think that way because of the way it translates to the people on the other side. A hundred percent. So one of the things I know you had mentioned, you have a framework that you teach to help practice your talks and help the delivery resonate with the audience. Can you walk through that framework a little bit?  

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely, Jeff, happy to. So the framework is really simple when building a talk. The first one is to ask yourself what is the main objective slash key idea of this presentation. If you’re presenting to a group of teenagers on design thinking or marketing, it’s very different than presenting to a group of senior-level executives on the same topic. Because your objective with the children is to make sure they have a good time, make sure they have a lot of fun learning about marketing, and inspire them to pursue careers in that topic. Whereas when you’re talking to senior executives, the goal might be generating leads, it might be generating more business, it might be showing yourself as an authority in that space to make sure everyone else in the industry knows who you are from a personal branding perspective. So notice how the same topic could have completely different objectives and key ideas. So that’s the first step is getting clarity on what’s the main goal here. Like for me, my objective, today is really simple. How do I convince anybody listening to this that they can become an exceptional communicator? So that’s number one. And then I’ll do that through different tactics, which brings us to two, I call this three to defend. So three to defend means when you’re sharing a presentation, most people won’t remember most of what you say. So what you need to do is you need to take a step back and say, “If I could only share three points to defend my key idea, to really get people excited about what I have to share, what are those three things and why?” And then you write down a bunch of ideas and you’ll circle three that you feel make the most sense. I’ll give you an example with my keynotes. So my main three are my personal story. I had a crooked left arm when I was growing up, and I still do. And then I had a lot of nerves. It’s my rags-to-riches story, right? So that’s the first one. The second piece is to create and share tips that are so simple that a five-year-old could do it. So I talked about the random word exercise. I talked about the question drill, I talked about the video message, not that hard. And then the third box that I use, whether I’m keynoting or on a podcast like this, is I help people dream about their communication. And that’s why you heard the question, how would your life change if you were an exceptional communicator? I’m changing the frame from the fear to the excitement. And then the last piece of this framework is called the vision state close. A lot of people, when they close presentations, Jeff, they summarize their points. “Okay, here’s what we learned this week. This is what we learned in today’s presentation, okay, go off into your weekend.” Versus the way I like to close, I’ll still summarize some points, but I’ll close with, “How would everybody’s lives in the room change if you all implemented what I shared today?” And I help them imagine. So I’ll say like, “Communication is the accelerant of dreams” and I’ll make a big hurrah around the importance of communication. That’s how I’ll close, that’s my framework.

Key Takeaways: Daily Practice, Answer Tough Questions, and Value Communication’s Impact

Jeff Tomlin: I like that. And I can see the impact that would have on persuasion as well. Getting people to think about the message. And I love the question at the beginning, my gosh, how many conferences have I been at? Or conversations where you meet people at a networking mixer and they walk right up to you, ask very few questions and they just start pitching. And they haven’t thought about, hey, the question like, what would this person care about with especially in the context of what they do. I love starting there. Brenden, if you were to pick out some key takeaways that you want people to have, I feel like you just summarized them, but what are some of the key things that you wanna leave in the back of the mind of the audience today?

Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure, Jeff, this is great by the way. Thanks for having me. Super fun. So two main takeaways that I’d leave the audience with. The first one is, if there’s only one thing you do from this episode, it’s really simple. Book 15 minutes in your calendar every single day to do my easy threes. Pick a few words, do the random word exercise, ’cause it’s not going to help if you listen to me doing it or Jeff doing it. You need to do it. The person who’s listening. The second easy three is the question drill, answer one tough question about your industry every day. If you do that for a year, you’ll have answered 365 questions about your industry. You’ll be bulletproof. And the third easy three is to send a video message or two to people that you love on their birthdays or just people in general to just show your appreciation. And then the last part on this is to reflect on the question, how would your life change if you became an exceptional communicator? And it doesn’t need to be to be a big executive in a company. It doesn’t need to be to start a business. It could be being a better friend, being a better mother, being a better dad for your children. And when you realize communication ties into everything that you do and it accelerates your goals and the quality of your life, you’ll be a lot more excited to practice it and share it with other people.

Connect with Brenden on YouTube to Attend Free Communication Workshops

Jeff Tomlin: Brenden, you’re a fascinating guy. If people wanna continue the conversation with you, how do they get hold of you?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely Jeff. And that makes two of us. So thanks for having me on the show. So two ways to keep in touch. The first one is the YouTube channel. Just go ahead and go to MasterTalk on YouTube in one word. You’ll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to speak. And the second way to keep in touch for those of you who are interested in coaching, come and attend one of our free communication workshops. I do one live over Zoom every two weeks. It’s absolutely free. Everyone’s invited. And if you wanna jump on that, go to rockstarcommunicator.com.

Jeff Tomlin: Love it. Rockstarcommunicator.com. And indeed you are Brenden Kumarasamy. Thank you for joining us in the Conquer Local podcast. All the best to you and come back and visit us again in the future.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Thanks for having me, Jeff.

Conclusion

Jeff Tomlin: What an inspiring conversation with Brenden. The core of Brenden’s work is centred around helping others improve their communication skills, and he believes that the motivation to overcome fear is key to achieving success in any endeavour. By focusing on the fear of not achieving goals rather than the fear of failure, individuals can build the confidence needed to excel in communication.

Brenden’s approach to improving communication skills involves practical exercises and techniques. Two key exercises include the “random word exercise” where you can practice creating impromptu presentations, and the “question drill” where you answer industry-related questions. Lastly, when it comes to virtual presentations, he emphasizes the importance of eye contact and maintaining energy to create an engaging and accessible experience for the audience.

If you’ve enjoyed Brenden Kumarasamy’s episode discussing Mastering the Art of Public Speaking revisit some of our recent episodes, check out episode 625: Building a Strong C-Suite Community with Jefftey Hayzlett or Episode 520, Body Language on Zoom with Mark Bowden.

Until next time, I’m Jeff Tomlin. Get out there and be awesome!