416: Empathy in Sales, with Jerry Acuff

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For sales professionals, empathy in sales is essential because, without a relationship, there’s no trust. Don’t reserve it exclusively for deals you’re trying to close immediately.

We have Jerry Acuff, CEO & Founder at DeltaPoint, as our guest this week on the Conquer Local Podcast. Jerry was a reluctant salesperson. When he realized his dream of becoming a college football coach wouldn’t come true, he stumbled into sales. He says so himself that he would never hire himself. Every step of the way, Jerry has remained humble to his success. Jerry drops his vast amount of knowledge with us; do what is right by your customer—even if that means they don’t do business with you—trust is the most important thing you can have with a customer. Empathy in sales has to be there right along with trust.

“People buy things from people they like; people buy from people they like and trust.”

Jerry’s expertise has led to numerous awards and recognitions, including the title of one of the 50 best salespeople of all time and one of the top 10 sales experts in the world, according to salesgurus.net. Jerry has been featured on MSNBC and the ABC Radio Network, as well as on TheStreet.com, WSJ.com, Fortune, Sales and Marketing Management Magazine, Investor’s Business Daily, Managed Care Pharmacy Practice, Fast Company, Selling Power, and “Selling Power Live.” He shares his passion for selling and building business relationships in his 3 best-selling business books: The Relationship Edge, The Relationship Edge in Business, and Stop Acting Like a Seller and Start Thinking Like a Buyer. Jerry is the CEO and founder of DELTA POINT in Scottsdale, Arizona. DeltaPoint works with sales and marketing leaders to implement innovative ways to sell and market in today’s crowded marketplace.

Join the conversation in the Conquer Local Community and keep the learning going in the Conquer Local Academy.


George: Welcome to another edition of the “Conquer Local” podcast. And today we are bringing you, probably one of the most storied sales trainers, and sales experts of all time. He’s been ranked one of the top five sales experts, in the world and also ranked at the 50 best salespeople, of all time in a list that includes Gates and Jobs. He’s increased market share for brands by 36%, resulting in over $360 million in new business. Jerry Acuff, the CEO and founder at Delta Point. One of those top sales experts that we aspire, to bring on the broadcast is coming up next, here on the “Conquer Local” podcast.

Joining us today in studio for the “Conquer Local” podcast, Jerry Acuff, CEO and founder at Delta Point. Jerry, I was in the intro, I was thinking I was gonna steal your thunder, and read out all of your accomplishments, but I like your accent better than mine. So would you mind kinda going through the list, because it’s a pretty impressive list on your resume, of all the work that you’ve done, and the accomplishments in your career. So first off, congratulations on that, and welcome to the podcast. And we’d love for you to introduce yourself to our audience.

Starting off in Sales

Jerry: Well, thank you, George. It’s an honor that you asked me to be on. You know, I don’t know. I started as a sales rep in the pharmaceutical business, after getting a college degree, from the Virginia Military Institute. Candidly I would never have hired me, but yeah, some guy he did hire me. And I didn’t really wanna be in sales, because I had been in sales before and failed. But I wound up becoming a district manager, and I had one of the top districts in the country, seven out of eight years. Then I went to the home office, and I woke up as Vice President, General Manager of the pharmaceutical company, which was about a $550 million company. And then I left and this is where, you know, I was telling you earlier, there’s no straight line to success. I had several failures in the consulting business, before I actually started Delta Point 20 years ago. And Delta Point is one of the top, strategic consulting companies in life sciences. We’ve done business with 20 of the top a hundred companies in the world. We’ve been in business for 20 years. We’ve been named strategic advisory firm of the year. I think three or four times, I’ve been CEO of the year in Arizona, three or four times. I don’t believe any of it. I’m rated to the top 10 sales expert in the world. I’m not sure I am but I put it on my website, ’cause I think it’d be stupid if I didn’t. And then some idiot wrote an article that said, I was one of the 50 greatest salespeople of all time, and put me in the same list, with Steve Jobs, Benjamin Franklin. And I’m saying, man, this got none near a fruitcake, ’cause the next day I wrote a post and said, “I know 50 people better than me.” The bottom line is I’ve been very lucky to be successful. I have learned from some of the greatest mentors, in the world. I have some of the greatest people working with me, that have taught me so much. My company would not have had our success, if it weren’t for my president, Matt Murphy, if it weren’t for Fran Robinson. If it wasn’t for all of the people, that work there I’d be mediocre.

George: Well, Jerry, it is a privilege to have you on the show. And one of the things when you and I met, previous to this episode that I was telling you is, I am unapologetically a salesperson, and I know that you feel the same way. In all the years that you’ve been selling, It almost seems to me when I hear your backstory, that you’re a reluctant, you’re almost a little reluctant, as a salesperson out of the gate. Like you didn’t really wanna be here. When did it really become clear to you, that that sales was the thing that Jerry was meant to do?

Jerry: Well, that’s a very good question because like I said, I didn’t wanna be in sales. I mean, I got rejected from graduate school, at Northeast Louisiana University, and for some people that’s hard to do. And I realized that, I was never gonna be a college football coach, which was my dream. And so my college roommate had asked me, if I wanted to be in the pharmaceutical business, and I said, yes, only because I had no other options. I was lucky George, because I happened to go to work, for a guy named Jim Crutchfield who is good as boss, as anybody could ever had. And he taught me this early on. He said, “Jerry, look, you’re a smart guy. You’re a hard worker. Just be yourself.” he said, “If you’re your authentic self, you’ll be successful.” And that was the best advice anybody could give me, when I was going into a role, that I was afraid I couldn’t be my authentic self. That I had to be some high pressure pushy salesperson.

And then the real thing that happened to me, was in 1981, when I got promoted to a manager. And I remember driving down the road in Birmingham, Alabama, and I remember having this conversation with myself. “You now have to teach these people how to sell, and you don’t know how to do that. You can sell, but you don’t know how to teach somebody how to sell.” So I literally George, I went to Brookwood Village mall. I bought a sales book. By the way, from 1971 to 81, I read three books. I read, “Jaws.” I read, “QB VII” by Leon Uris. In anticipation of moving to New Jersey, I read “The Godfather” and that’s it. And so I buy this book called, “Winning Strategies in Selling” by Roger Staubach and Jack and Gary Kinder, and it changed my life in every way. And that’s not a great book. My book’s better. But he quoted Charlie “Tremendous” Jones in there, and he said this and this changed my life. He said, “Chances are, you’ll be the same person, five years from today that you are today, with the exception of two things, the people you meet and the books you read. And the person who won’t read is truly no better off, than the person who can’t read.” And since that day, I’ve read over 600 business books. I read one book 93 times. I’ve read four or five of them 12 times. And I can tell you that what he said is so true. So much of what I’ve learned has been from books, but equally, if not more important than that, is the people that I have met. And they’re in many cases, they were the people that worked for me.

The Fundamentals of Selling

Jerry: I mean, I learned customer centricity, God rest his soul, from Van Walker. I learned how to build relationships from John Fuco, and these are people that work for me. I learned the power of consistency from Benita Crow. And so all of these things, all these people that work for me. But I think if I had anything, I always had an open mind, because I think excellence is a choice. And I think that my old boss used to say, “When you’re green, you’re growing, when you’re ripe, you’re rotting.” And so I woke up this morning at 5:30, and first thing I do is practice my prosperity plan, which I learned from Weldon Long in his book, “The Power of Consistency” which every human on the planet needs to read. And then I read 25 minutes of Daniel Pink’s book, “To Sell Is Human.” So I just think the thing that happened to me, was I really understood. And then Fred Herman really changed me again, because in like 84, I was listening to Fred Herman, on audio tape series and he said, “If you have a negative view of selling, you’ll never be great.” And he said that, “If you have the right definition of selling, you can be great.” And so he said, “The definition of selling is this. Selling is teaching. In every successful sale some education takes place. The customer learns something that they didn’t know before.” He said, “Now, if you think about that, the best teachers that you ever had, were not people that lectured to you. They were people that asked you questions, that got you involved, they made it fun, they made it interactive. And that’s what really great salespeople do.” The second thing you said is that, “Selling is finding out what people want, and helping them get it.” He said, “Now, there’s two things, you need to know about that. Number one, most people don’t know what they want, but they think they did. And your job as a salesperson is to identify, what is it they really do want, that they really haven’t thought of yet. And if by chance, what they want, we don’t have, we have no right to sell them what we do have.” And so I found that very liberating. In fact, if anybody reads my book, “Stop Acting Like a Seller, Start Thinking Like a Buyer.” the very first chapter is, “What is selling?” And the point that I make is, if you have 50 salespeople in a room, and you ask them all to write down a definition of selling, you’ll get 50 different answers. And I’m saying, selling is really one thing. It’s actually these two things that… Now, my friend Jeremy Miner, says it a little bit differently. And Jeremy Miner, if you’ve not had Jeremy on your show, he’s phenomenal. He and I are writing a book together, and he’s a fabulous sales expert. And I’m always trying to learn from other people, who do the same thing I do, and Jeremy is one of the people that I so admire. And Jeremy says that, “Your job as a salesperson, is to find out if there is a sale to be made here or not.”

George: Right.

Jerry: If you go in with the right mindset, that you’re not, you don’t know whether there’s gonna be a sale or not. You’re there to discover. You’re there to help the other person discover. And so that the thing I write about in my book, which I believe is the less you care about the sale, the more you sell.

How to Be an Effective Seller

George: When we were meeting before we came in for this episode, I wanted to dig into this because this is something, that it took me years to learn as well. Where I became an effective seller, was where I got to the point where I could walk away, and really investigate if it was gonna be a fit or not. And I think that the epiphany for me, and I’d love to hear from you where you captured this, was I was so sick of deals going sideways, but it was more, “I’m pretty good convincer. I’m a pretty good manipulator.” So I could manipulate the situation to get the deal closed, but I didn’t build repeat business. And I was putting a square peg in a round hole. When was it for you, Jerry, where you realized, that the real power came and the real confidence was there, when you walked in and you said, “I’m here to see if this is gonna work for me, let alone whether it’s gonna work for you as the customer.”

Jerry: Well, I think what I did is I equated, the importance of trust to being successful in selling, to that attribute. And so I believe that people buy from people. Maxwell says, “All things being equal, people buy from people that they like. All things, not being equal, people still buy from people from people they like.” I don’t think he’s right. I think we buy from people that we like and people we trust. And so I think when you go in, and you demonstrate that you have no bias, then I think your credibility goes through the roof. I mean, I can tell you, I tell people all the time, our company’s not for everybody. I will tell you, I had a situation. Awhile back company in Dallas called me. They had 15 salespeople, they wanted me to come down there. They read my book. They thought I was the perfect fit for them. And I got to thinking about it, and I said, “I’m not in an inexpensive date.” because my time is fairly valuable. And so I say, “Well, I got that. It’s three days. I gotta fly down there. I gotta do the event. I gotta come back the next day.” And I said, “If I were them, I’d try and find somebody local.” I mean, that’s what went through my mind, right. And so we had a follow-up call, well, I happened to know a great sales trainer in Dallas. His name is Tim Walker and I’ve known him for 20 years. He’s as good as anybody you’ll ever meet. So I called him on the phone and I said, “Hey are you available this date? Would you do this? And I’m assuming that it would be somewhat less, than what I would charge.” He said, “Yes.” And I said, “Well, I’m gonna connect you with these people, if they want you.” And so when I got on the call, and we were there to finalize the details, I told the guy, I said, “Look, are you open to another option?” And he said, “Yeah, why?” And I said, “Because I don’t think I would hire me if I were you.” I said, “You’re gonna spend more money, than you have to spend. You’re not gonna get dramatically better benefit. I mean, this guy that I’m suggesting, hadn’t written the book, but he’s just as good a sales trainers you’ll ever meet. And he lives in Dallas. So you’re not gonna find anybody’s expenses. The pay’s gonna be less and you’re gonna get a quality, and I’m talking high quality training session. So if you want his number, I’ll give it to you. If you’re dying to write me a check, then we can finalize the deal. It’s up to you.” And he said, “Well, give me his number.” Well, I didn’t care. I mean, the reality is, I think I did the right thing by the customer.

Now, I’ve never heard from that prospect again. I probably never will. I know this, I did the right thing. I know that I lived up to what I believe selling is. If what they want, I don’t have, I have no right to sell them what they do have. Now, if there have been, if it, if they said it was 50 people or 60 or 70 people, then it would have been a different issue. But 15 people, I just didn’t feel like it was the right thing to do. So I think you gotta live those values. You gotta walk away from opportunities. You gotta “Cause here’s the other thing you gotta remember, if you’re in sales, I mean, if you’re in sales, you don’t have anything, that’s more important than your reputation. And so, I think your reputation has got to be exemplary. I mean, you’ve got to be doing things over and above, what people are paying you for. You gotta be a giver, not a taker. You can’t be greedy. And all of those things build trust. I was doing a session for a thousand people in Las Vegas, I don’t know, seven or eight years ago. And I remember it was on questioning, where they wanted us to teach their people, how to ask better questions. So I was thinking about it tonight before, and I was looking on the internet, and trying to find somebody, who had written about the concept that, “The reason salespeople ask questions is to deepen their understanding of how the customer thinks and how they make decisions.” That’s the only reason to ask the question, right? And so I couldn’t find anything, George, nothing. So I’m finally on the seventh Google page, search page, I found an article from a technology guy, and here’s what he said, and it’s one of the most powerful things I’ve learned, in my 40 something years of being in this business. He said this, “If you want to exchange information with another person,” which I would submit to you is what selling is, he said “two things,” and he said this, “probably” I like that word, “probably need to be true. Number one, the other party has to see the belief, believe that you’re not biased.” And so when I tell this story to salespeople, I’ll say, “Now, let me ask you this question. Last 30 people you called on, what percentage of those people, if you had to guess, would say that you’re biased?” And then you wonder why they ain’t buying. Because what happens is when they think your biased, their sales resistance goes up immediately. Now, if you walk in and say, “Our products not for everybody, our services not for everybody.” The real question is, “Does our service or does our product makes sense for you? That’s what I’d like to find out. If it does, maybe there’s something here. If it doesn’t, it was great meeting you.”

The second thing he said was that, “The customer has to believe, that you truly understand them.” Now, most salespeople in my experience, don’t get to true understanding, because they’re so anxious for that person to shut up, so they can start telling you how great their stuff is. And so I teach people things like, if I create a question, I’ll always put behind it a parentheses that says, “Stop and listen.” And then I’ll put four or five dots, And then I’ll say, “Can you say more about that?” These are things I call extenders. Now, I learned a long time ago, that the customer only reveals, about 20% of what they’re thinking. Okay, well, if they’re only revealing, 20% of what you’re thinking, I mean, I’m not gonna get the other 80%. Well, the only way I can do that, is I gotta pull it out of them by getting them to talk more. “Can you say more about that? Can you elaborate on that a little bit more? Help me understand how you came to that conclusion.” I’m always seeking understanding. And now once I can get to understanding, then I can say, “Look, let me make a case for our product, based on what you’ve told me, and then tell me whether it makes sense for you or not.”

George: Jerry, all of that, makes an enormous amount of sense to me. And the thing that is staggering is how simple it is. And when we’re working with salespeople, and we’re doing that evaluation or that coaching moment, and we realize, that they don’t know how to ask those extenders, great word by the way. I asked a question, “Are you in a coaching session with a rap?” And they say, “No, I asked a question.” You’re like, “Yes, but you could’ve asked 30 more.” They’re like, “Well, yeah but I already know what the answer is.” And it’s like, “Okay, you’re rushing this thing.” The prospect needs to trust you. And by asking the questions, and to understand you build more of that trust. It’s such a simple concept but yet even veteran sellers, forget it over a period of time, I find. Is that what you’re finding as well in your work?

Jerry: Yeah, but everybody’s in too big a hurry to make a sale. The reality is, I mean, one of the things Jeremy taught me, and I thank him for this, and Chris Voss says this in his book, “Never Split The Difference” which is also a terrific book. But basically he says, “The most powerful tool you have in selling is your voice.” And what Jeremy teaches you is that you need to talk slowly. What happens most salespeople, they talk too fast. Now, if you’re talking too fast, the customer doesn’t feel like they’re being heard. Well, if you don’t feel like you’re being heard, you’re certainly not gonna feel like you’re understood. Now, Jeremy also talks about using tonality, which was sort of a revelation to me, and I’ve studied his stuff, and I think it makes an awful lot of sense. I mean, look, selling is in many ways an art, and it’s in many ways a science, but the reality is if you’re gonna get people to trust you, you have to talk the right way. You have to use the right words. You have to have the right mindset, ’cause the moment that they sense, that you’re in it for you, is the moment that they create sales resistance, and they will find a way to get out of talking to you. If you go in and you let them know, I used to tell my customers all the time. I say, “Now, I don’t care if you buy from me or not.” Let me tell you why. I care about my reputation. And if I don’t think I can help you, I’m not gonna take the project. Our average client engagement is over four years. And I can tell you having been in this business 20 years, I can trace 70% of my business today to two people.

George: From referrals I’m assuming.

Empathy in Sales

Jerry: Yeah, exactly. So when I think about the people, that they’ve introduced me to over the last 20 years, they’re now my customers, and they’ve moved on and then those people have moved on. And so it, you know, and I also, you know… I’ve written three best-selling books, on relationship building. And I think relationship building, is really really important. But I think it’s important to build a business relationship, and not a social relationship. And I’m not saying you can’t build a social relationship, because if you build a good business relationship, it will turn social if it’s supposed to turn social, But I want people to wanna do business with me, not wanna have dinner with me. I mean, I don’t mind going for dinner with anybody. And certainly, I love my customers, but one of the best customers I’ve ever had, who’s been a customer of mine now, I think for 19 consecutive years, I think we might’ve been to dinner three times in 19 years. We’ve never played golf together. We’ve never, you know, we don’t train together ’cause I don’t drink. I don’t even know whether he does or not. And I mean, it’s not that of relationship. However, it’s very social in nature. It’s just not one of those things, where we rely on human contact, to make our relationship valuable. We rely on the exchange of value. So I’m exchanging my company’s value, that wisdom that we create, to help him as a sales leader drive results. And he’s providing me value, because he’s given me the opportunity, to impact his sales organization in a meaningful way. And he’s done that for 20 years everywhere he’s ever been.

George: Jerry, you bring up some very good points. I wanted to make sure, that we got some of your wisdom around for new sellers. So we have a whole new generation that are coming, into realizing that they’re in the sales business. I work with lots of these folks on a daily basis. And what I find is, they probably are pretty good, and from a product knowledge standpoint, they’re open to learning. But when it comes to that relationship component, they either believe, that you’ve got to be somebody’s friend to sell, which you’ve just dispelled that myth, that that’s not the case. You need to have a business relationship. I guess my point is, what would be some of your advice, that you would give to yourself, back when you started selling in your twenties, If you could do it over again? I always like to ask that question to see, what would you do different, or what advice would you give to yourself at 25, when you were starting out in selling?

Jerry: Well, one of the things when you’ve been around, since Moby Dick was a minnow, you learn a lot of stuff. One of the things that I came to the conclusion, a long time ago which I wish I knew when I was, early in my career, when you’re actually in front of that customer, there’s three things that really matter. It’s probably four. One is how much did you plan? Because the vast majority of sales do not happen, because we don’t plan well. And planning is the most important thing that you can do. The second thing is what’s your knowledge? Because nobody wants a relationship with an idiot. And so knowledge to me is the Trump card. If you don’t have knowledge, knowledge of your selling style. Knowledge of your personality. Knowledge of your customer. Knowledge of your customer’s business. knowledge of your customers competitors. Knowledge of the skills necessary, in order to be effectively persuasive. Skills that actually make you a better listener. Skills that make you ask better questions. If you don’t have all that knowledge, then the likelihood, that you’re gonna be successful is dramatically diminished. Now, if you have that knowledge, then how you say what you say which we call messaging, really, really matters. So if I say to you, “How many times a month, do you use a widget like this?” That’s a lousy question, because the answer is gonna be, “It depends.” Well, I mean, I gotta ask another question. “It depends on what?” Now, if I say, “Look, if you had to guess, about how many widgets do you think you’d use, in a three or four a week period of time?” they’re gonna give you an answer. That’s all I care about is give me an answer, give me some direction. And so words matter. I mean, that’s actually, what’s on the back of my business card, “Words matter.” And then the last thing is relationships. Now, the thing that’s interesting about these three things, and these four things, actually, they’re all interdependent. And so my ability to build relationships, George, heavily related to my knowledge. Now, by the way knowledge is a very interesting concept, because the way most people perceive us, in a selling situation as smart, is when we ask them questions they never thought of. “Wow, man, I never thought of that way.” See, it’s not being able to do an encyclopedic recitation, of the products and the benefits and all that stuff. That’s not what makes people think you’re smart. What makes people think you smart, is when you make them think, about things they haven’t thought of in a way before. So knowledge is critical. If you message well because you have the knowledge, you’ll build a relationship because we want relationships, with people who actually create value. And if you have the relationship you get more knowledge.

George: Right. So it’s a circle.

Jerry: It’s a circle circle, exactly.

George: Well, Jerry, we really appreciate you, coming on the show today. I knew we’d have some great discussion, around this idea of… I love the concept around sales resistance, and in removing that resistance and being careful, that you don’t actually create more resistance, in your interaction with the prospect. Here’s the other thing that I love, the title of your book, because I remember back to a time, when I was selling for the longest time, and then I actually became the buyer. And I learnt so much on the other side of the desk. And unfortunately it wasn’t about how to sell. It was actually about what I hated. If I had one more sales rep that walked in, the didn’t deploy the right components. So your concept of “Stop acting like a seller, and start thinking like a buyer,” I believe is a game changer, from a sales person’s perspective, to look at it as, “I’m sorry, did I give the buyer, enough reasons to say, yes.”

Jerry: Yeah and Pink says in his book that the key, to success in selling today, he’s talking about today, is empathy. Well, what is empathy? Empathy is thinking like the other person. It’s really trying to understand the other person. So I think you’re a hundred percent right. The problem is we’re in too much of a hurry, to actually make a sale, rather than to create a relationship. I tell my people, what do I want? I want a customer. And if we have to lose money to get a customer, that doesn’t bother me because I know this, if we do what we do well, which we do, these people are gonna be a customer for a long time. I just wanna find out they’re people, that we actually can help. And if we can help them, what you find is that, they keep buying from you over and over and over again.

George: Right.

Jerry: And so you get this growth, that you never even contemplated, because people are satisfied customers, they’re loyal customers and they move, they go to another company. And guess what they do, they bring you with them. And so now you’ve got a whole nother audience, that you never had before, because you did right by somebody in their last job.

George: Well, and when you ask a senior sales rep, or a sales leader what their best lead source is, nine times out of 10 you’re gonna hear referrals, if they’ve been doing it for a while and doing it well.

Jerry Acuff, thanks for joining us. The book is titled, “Stop Acting Like a Seller and Think Like a Buyer.” And we really appreciate you bringing, your wisdom to the broadcast today, for our conquers all over the world. And I’ll definitely will see you when I see you my friend. Appreciate your time.

Jerry: Thank you, George.


George: What a great episode. Jerry, he’s hilarious. Like I could just spend hours talking to him, about his experience in working with sales organizations. But let’s get to some of the key takeaways. That idea that we need to build, that trust with the prospect. And what Jerry is teaching us is, one of the most compelling ways to do that, is to be ready to walk away. To position it from day one with the prospect, with that you’re there to figure out, whether this is a fit for them and you, because that’s where real partnerships are built. And you’ll notice that he brings up, that component of helping. We’ve been talking a lot about this over the years. There’s all the old sales sayings, of always be closing and using closing techniques. And “What’s your closing tactic?” and “What’s your close percentage?” And all of those items are important, because you have to track them, and you have to make sure, that you’re asking for the business, and you have to structure a commercial arrangement. But if you don’t build that trust, and what Jerry talks about, which is a very important component, is this idea of sales resistance. And that is where the buyer, they have some predetermined sales resistance, but you as a seller, might actually be putting more resistance into the deal, by common mistakes, not asking those extender questions. I love that term of an extender question. I was recently on a call with a seller, very good seller, where the prospect asked a question. They had a perfect opportunity to dig deeper. And they just went to the answer, like immediately to the answer, rather than asking that extender question, or multiple extender questions. And when you do that, you’re actually building a deeper relationship. You are making sure that, you’re removing sales resistance and not adding more. And you’re positioning yourself as that trusted expert, which we talk a lot about on this broadcast. It’s an exchange of information with the other person. And that idea that, do they believe that you’re biased? Like, do you have some level of bias? Of course you do. You’re the salesperson, for an organization that’s trying to sell something. But if you come up with that compelling reason, for them to say, yes, that it solves their problem, by clearly understanding what that problem is, and asking questions. And then positioning value, where you’re giving them information they didn’t have. You’re adding value to the conversation. That then removes the resistance, increases the level of trust. You understand the prospect better. And then Jerry talked a lot about, you know, he really, all of the business is coming from two deals that he did. How many salespeople have you met over your time, and you’re talking to him, it’s like, “Yeah, I’m doing this deal. I’m working with this client. If this all comes true, and we’re really able to make this work, this’ gonna get me 20 other deals.” Well, they’re thinking about the fit with that customer, and they see it as a longer play, that if I get it right with this client, they’re gonna introduce me to 20 more. And I’m so, you know, having that mindset of “This is a long live relationship.” This is, you know, we use the term partnership, sometimes lip service. It’s a true partnership, to the point where the customer says, “I got to introduce you to other people, that can’t live without you and your solution.” Jerry talked a lot about that, and did it in a very entertaining way. And we’re really privileged to have him on the show, and teaching us about these components around the messaging, having that level of confidence when you walk into the call that it’s not a fit, walk away. Do the right thing. Sell your solution to somebody, that it really is a true fit for. We’d love to have you as a subscriber. And one of the other things that I haven’t been doing, I’d love to get a review. If you love the podcast, and wherever you may be listening to it. Producer, Coleen’s done amazing job. I think we’re everywhere. Wherever you may be listening to it, take two seconds, leave us a review. If it’s not five star, reach out to me directly. If we’re not hitting the market, love to hear about it. But if we are, we’d really appreciate that input, on the various channels of that five-star review. So thanks very much for joining us this week, on the “Conquer Local” podcast. My name is George Leith. I’ll see you when I see you.